Canelo vs Calzaghe at 168

Agree with this.

Joe has never fought on that stage either.

 

Oh god, I don't think you've watched much if any of Calzaghe at all or you just simply don't know what you're watching.

 

Come on shovel stop talking ****... Everyone knows calzaghe wasn't slick, he was slower than Joe joyce, threw bout ten punches a round n had lead in his boots... The only thing he had going for him was his Julian Jackson esque power...... Lol

 

Yup just another stiff basic European fighter with no wrinkles to his game at all except a big punch.

 

the hopkins' win was calzaghe's best, but hopkins was 42,43 and won a SD.
and what do you mean by a "false narrative"?

 

you said canelo's best wins were against "good fighters but basic in their style".
calzaghe's career best win against a fighter in their prime (kessler) is exactly that.

 

joe did fight in the US, but only after jones and hopkins were dethroned, past prime and losing as many as they were winning.
joe was an excellent fighter, but an excellent fighter who consciously stayed away from the US when jones and hopkins were kings.

since he wasn't willing to travel to the US and fight the best in the world when it mattered, it's ridiculous (imo) to call him a great fighter or compare him to fighters like canelo who have been fighting on the biggest stage of all for the past 10 years.

you can't become a great fighter running your career like that.

 

The welsh dragon by decision.

 

Good onya mark, ya coming into your prime.

 

i agree with a lot of your (longer) post above, but...

how can you say that?
based on an SD over a 42/43 year old man?

all these people clammering over calzaghe saying how he'd beat a future ATG in his prime when joe went out of his way to avoid exactly these fights his entire career.
you don't become a great fighter by doing that.

 

The calzaghe that beat kessler slaps the cinnamon out of that kid. He hasnt fought any super middles near the level of calzaghe.

 

I just linked you to a topic where most posters in there are practically laughing at the idea that Calzaghe's slick. He's just not a slick fighter. He's quick, he can be elusive with his footspeed and how he bounces around like a kangaroo, but he's not slick. Calzaghe does not know how to fight inside, or how to slip punches. Canelo's skillset would present all kinds of problems for Joe. Would it be an interesting styles matchup? Absolutely. Would it be fun to watch? You betcha. But Calzaghe had never faced a fighter with the kind of skills that Canelo has. I hear talk about how Calzaghe beat Prime Kessler. That's great, but Prime Kessler ain't Prime Canelo.

 

The Hopkins fight didn't really play a part on my decision regarding that. More how Canelo struggles vs movers like Lara and Trout, he's far more effective against fighters who come to him or stand right in front of him and how Canelo's work rate is so low in general a 40 plus Hopkins could match him for out put.

Calzaghe's can 100% out work Canelo, he can 100% use movement to diffuse much of Canelo's offence which comes in the form of counter punching. Yes Calzaghe can get hit, usually by the southpaws Achilles heel the right hand but Calzaghe gets hit because he is aggressive and throws a lot, he's willing to take that shot because he knows he can land 3 or 4 or more shots by risking taking that shot and that's what would happen vs Canelo. Canelo will find Joe's chin and find he doesn't have the power to dissuade Calzaghe and take more shots and get out worked. But even if Canelo does have the power to make Joe respect his power well then Calzaghe gets on his bike and Canelo is forced to chase and then he struggles there too and still gets out worked.

No denying Calzaghe's resume is lacking. He showed some ambition early in his career, he tried to fight in the US, he was meant to fight on the De La Hoya/Tito undercard vs Syd Vanderpool but an injury forced him to pull out. He of course tried to entice Hopkins in 2002 with that Showtime deal but Hopkins had better options and for most of Calzaghe's career the US wasn't where the challenge was at super middleweight as 168lbs was devoid of any US talent it was Germany's Sven Ottke who was the number 1 super middle and Calzaghe tried repeatedly to make that fight but Ottke never wanted it and there simply wasn't enough money involved to make the fight happen.

I do think Calzaghe did get comfortable once he started making good money and lost some of his ambition but his attempts to fight Hopkins and Ottke suggest he at least tried at times and through no fault of his own those fights didn't happen. As for RJJ, lets be honest he wasn't even on RJJ's radar at the time, the idea of him moving up during RJJ's prime wasn't a fight anyone was really calling for, RJJ was operating on another level, Calzaghe would of just been some unknown Euro challenger that nobody in the US would of cared about.

 

I make it pretty even. Canelo is P4P better, but Calzhage was no slouch himself and is naturally the bigger man.

 

The most frustrating thing about Calzaghe IMO is that I don't think we really saw the best of him, and we won't know just how great he could have been.

A lot of this was being with Frank Warren, but at the end of the day Joe could have done something about that. He's admitted that he didn't like to travel, but in later years when he could sell out the Cardiff Millenium Stadium that's kind of understandable - look at Andre Ward, and Terrence Crawford - they very rarely left Oakland / Omaha respectively - but of course they are based in the US, so arguably different.

Warren really should have had him over in the US earlier in his career to make his name. I believe they tried to make a fight with BHop in 2002, but Bernard doubled his fee - probably wisely as JC was always gonna be high-risk low-reward for any savvy fighter.

Even with his brittle hands, Calzaghe would have been a VERY hard night's work for anyone @168, his insane workrate, granite chin, amazing recovery and most importantly, incredible adaptability mid-fight. One thing that really, REALLY struck me was when Nigel Benn said he wouldn't have picked himself to beat JC (The Gloves Are Off episode I think....)

JC had a bad tendency though to fight to his opponents level, but always seemed to raise his game - the better the opponent he faced, the better he performed. And there is the rub, he missed Benn/Eubank/Watson heyday, and on the other side of his career, he also missed the Super 6 which seemed to elevate 168 quite a bit.

Anyway, with Canelo, like most others here, I'd put my money on Calzaghe U/D here - I just can't see how Canelo, given his well-documented stamina issues when being made to work at a pace he can't sustain, could keep with JC over the stretch.

IMO only fighters that could beat JC @168 would be prime RJJ - he was just out of this world, even Joe himself admits that beating Roy in his prime would be a really tall order; and possibly Andre Ward, tho again I favour JC to eke out an S/D over work - maybe like 7 times out of 10.

Ward vs Calzaghe would be a terrible fight to watch tho IMO, ugly, dirty and not very exciting - tbh probably not much different to the BHOP fight when it finally happened - expect I can't see Ward trying to fake low blows; dishing them out more like!