Cant for the life of me understand how Usyk not p4p #1

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Sep 29, 2019.


  1. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile God Bless America Full Member

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    Ruiz was born and raised in California.
     
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  2. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    But, wouldnt the fact that it was a vastly different Usyk, and a vastly different Porter, make this comparison rather meaningless?

    Sincere question.

    What relevance does an amature fight from 13 years ago, realistically have, on a 12 round professional fight that happened this week?
     
  3. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Unbiased and going purely by facts and numbers, the no.1 p4p would most likely come from LW to MW.

    Simply because it has the most competitors and therefore the deepest talent pool. There’s twice as many WW boxers as there are CWs.
     
  4. Dirsspaardis

    Dirsspaardis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He’s not trying to paint anything. Facts are there and they do not care about your feelings.
    Porter starts boxing aged 4, competing aged 8.
    Usyk starts boxing aged 15.
    Both meet at age 19.

    Who’s got more experience?
    See, no painting just numbers and facts.

    And not that this loss matters anyway. Porter beat Andrade and Jacobs in ams too, both would whoop his backside in pro’s.

    You don’t seem to grasp the concept of experience, lol
     
  5. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pure facts (comparison):

    Usyk fought his first top-10 opponent (Glowacki) in his 10th pro fight - Wilder fought his first top-10 opponent (Stiverne) in his 33rd pro figh.

    Usyk unified all four titles in his 15th pro fight (5th since wining his first titles and 2nd after winning his second one), Wilder didn't even make an attemp to unify the titles in 42 pro fights (9 fights since winning his first title)

    With the exception of Thabiso Mchunu, who was solid top-20 guy, Usyk fought exlusively other champions and top-10 guys in all his title defenses - Briedis, Gassiev, Hunter, Bellew and Huck. Out of all Wilder's opponents in his 9 (NINE) title defenses only 2 (TWO) were top-10 guys - ancient (but admitedly still very good) Luis Ortiz and Tyson Fury, who schooled him.

    Usyk defeated all his best opponents on their soil - Briedis, Gassiev, Hunter, Glowacki, Huck, Bellew, and never got any gifts from ring officials, while Wilder fought exlusively in the USA and got the judges help in Tyson Fury fight and referee's/doctor's help in Ortiz fight.

    So, Usyk and Wilder are on different planets if we compare their achievements, that's why Usyk is in discussion of being #1 P4P fighter while Wilder isn't even in discussion of being top-10 P4P fighter.
     
  6. Dirsspaardis

    Dirsspaardis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Both Usyk and Lomachenko are beating champs one after another, all in their 15-16 pro fight careers, and don’t seem to get much appreciation for not going the traditional route of fighting absolute nobodies with more loses than wins to pad their records.

    Ukrainians do not **** around :lol:
     
  7. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The facts are all those clowns you mentioned took the easy way.

    Wilder fought as a heavyweight in the amateurs. Usyk fought as a heavyweight in the amateurs (and won Gold). Hunter fought as a heavyweight in the amateurs. Briedis fought in the heavyweight as an amateur. Glowacki fought as a SUPER heavyweight as an amateur.

    Yet, when it came time to turn pro, everyone EXCEPT WILDER decided to cut weight (and be weight bullies) and go for cruiserweight belts so they could fight smaller men. Wilder went after the heavyweight crown - like Frazier and Foreman and Tyson.

    Wilder and Usyk both competed at heavyweight in the 2008 Olympics. Both lost to the same guy. Wilder won the Bronze. Usyk didn't win anything.

    Wilder turned pro and fought on the club circuit scraping a living to pay for his daughter's medical situation. Usyk lived the good life fighting amateurs, traveling the world and getting paid for it.

    Wilder has been outweighed by everyone he faced for the last seven years, giving up anywhere from 20 to 45 pounds in title defenses, he's overcome broken hands and a torn bicep during a fight to still score stoppage wins, and he's still a dominant heavyweight champion about to make his 10th title defense - making him one of the most successful defending heavyweight champions in history.

    Now, at 32, the Olympic Heavyweight Champion Usyk is FINALLY stepping up and "testing the waters" at heavyweight. And he's being "handed" a #1 rating in the division. Again, taking the easy way.

    Anyone who thinks Usyk is #1 Pound-For-Pound should go ahead and rate Usyk above everyone at heavyweight right now. Because it's laughable if you rate him #1 in all of boxing but don't rate him #1 in the division he's competing in.

    Wilder would destroy him ... but Usyk will never get that far. Now that he's a heavyweight, if Usyk wins 25 fights as a pro, I'll be surprised.

    There is a reason Usyk took the easier route and only moved up now that he's approaching his mid 30s. Even Usyk isn't sure he can do it.

    And there's a reason Wilder didn't turn pro at cruiser and chase former super welterweight Guillermo Jones or Zsold Erdei around looking to pick up a strap.

    Because Wilder knew he could beat anyone.

    Wilder is going to end up with more wins than Usyk and Joshua combined. He's a first ballot Hall of Famer.

    Now we'll see what the Olympic Heavyweight champ is made of and why he decided to hide in the cruiserweight division for years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Now that they're in the same division, all the "what if" scenarios go out the window.

    It's all about head-to-head now.

    Let's see which heavyweight achieves more ... and who gets his head caved in.
     
  9. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Since you are the FACTS guy, show us or tell us who Porter competed against from 4 or 8 (whatever it is today) to 14 and where and when those bouts took place that allowed him to get more "experience" than the guy who medalled at the European championships the year they fought?

    Where are all these tournaments featuring eight-year-olds being held?

    More importantly, where are the TODDLER tournaments with all these four year olds taking place exactly? (I'm sure the police would like to know.)

    Who'd Porter beat when he was 8, 9, and 10? Because, on this board, I'm sure you imagine Porter faced a Murderer's Row of second, third and fourth graders to get ready for Usyk. He had to. Usyk is so great (that's sarcasm).

    I never knew scrapes you had in second grade counted more than actual European boxing tournaments featuring grown men. Apparently, I've overestimated the quality of European boxers.

    Apparently, if you get into scrapes with five 12 year olds when you're in sixth grade that is worth more "experience" on this board than winning three fights and medaling in the European championships in 2006 against Matt Korobov.

    Some of you guys are totally lost, I swear.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  10. Incinerate

    Incinerate Active Member Full Member

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    Usyk hasn’t beaten enough guys to call him the best pfp fighter.
     
  11. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You accept (tacitly) Uysk's achievements are greater when you say 'it's all about head-to-head, now'; ie: a scenario in which Wilder can directly compete. And you seem pretty sure he'll come out on top. It's possible, of course.

    Will be great too, when Wilder commits to his claim he could make CW and then unifies the belts as he said he would, and like Uysk did.

    Then Wilder might just be in the P4P conversation where he can speak it, we can believe it and, the recognition... he will receive it. But right now he's a HW with a pretty thin resume and one belt...
     
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  12. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pound-for-pound discussions are the boxing equivalent of fantasy football.

    I care about what actually happens in the ring, head-to-head.

    The best heavyweight in the world IS THE BEST fighter in the sport. He can beat all the other boxers in all the other divisions.

    If Usyk is the best fighter in the whole sport, RANK him #1 at heavyweight and hold him to the same standards as the other heavyweights.

    The "fantasy" aspect is over. If Usyk is the BEST fighter in the sport, then he needs to beat the top heavyweights, no matter how big they are.

    His weight bully days are over.

    Wilder takes his head off.
     
  13. Dirsspaardis

    Dirsspaardis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Didn’t read past the first paragraph, sorry.
    What Usyk did in his first 4 years of training is a further testament of his talent, not the fact that a guy who had 15 years of training did nothing. If your next argument is that kids at 4-15 learn F all then you’d just further prove your lack of understanding in terms of training and conditioning.

    I started training in kickboxing and taekwondo when I was 16. Kids, same age as me or thereabouts, who started around the age of 10 had an incredible advantage in technique and physical condition over me. Only way for me to kick their ass was to take one to land one and basically win on the power of will alone until I catched up.
    Like I said, you’re unable to grasp the concept of experience hence this conversation won’t go anywhere.

    As for who, where and when Porter fought, you have whole internet at your disposal, look for info, read a few different sources, this experience might teach you something.
     
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  14. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I mean, I agree with a lot of what you say regarding HWs being the ultimate fighters in boxing. But because of various issues, the best HWs don't always get to fight; either ever or yet, so we all have to use other criteria, and belts are an objective way of ranking. So yeah, I agree... Andy Ruiz is the No1 HW at the moment...
     
  15. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

    Wilder was schooled BADLY by Artur Szpilka for the first 8 rounds. Szpilka made him look like a clown (watch the video in the bottom of my post from 1:26). Until round 9 Wilder couldn't land ANYTHING on a guy, who got hit plenty of times by Mike Mollo. Wilder made Szpilka look like a prime Pernell Whitaker in terms of defensive skills n the first 8 rounds.

    And who is Szpilka? He is 6'3'' southpaw, a VERY poor version of Usyk. Usyk is the same height , has longer reach, and he is light years ahead of Szpilka in speed, defensive and offensive skills, boxing IQ, chin and stamina. The only thing in which Szpilka has an advantage (although not a huge one) over Usyk is power. In every other aspect of the game he is millions times inferior fighter. And he still managed to school Wilder for 8+ rounds.

     


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