Cant for the life of me understand how Usyk not p4p #1

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Sep 29, 2019.


  1. Dirsspaardis

    Dirsspaardis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It’s about as dumb of a question as your statement that Porter wasn’t more experienced than Usyk when they met.

    I asked about pro fights only and what you wrote is not an answer.
     
  2. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Usyk doesn't deserve to be P4P#1 but he does deserve his top 5 ranking. Officially being ranked top 5 P4P is a huge accomplishment.

    You could even rank him 3 or 4 . The top 5 is all interchangeable. It comes down to who you like more , but Ring officially has him ranked at # 5 so whats there to complain about.

    David Haye didn't enter the top 10 when he unified the division. Marco Huck didn't get anywhere near the top 10 and he racked up 15 defenses.

    Usyk might actually be the first CW ever to be ranked in the P4P top 5.
     
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  3. LANCE99

    LANCE99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I suppose it's a good thing then that P4P isn't even a real form of measurement of anything in boxing..
     
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  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    You chat a lot of bollocks you know
     
  5. tinman

    tinman Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes most likely, they have more balls in the lottery just due to sheer numbers. But if you reach into a basket with 5 CW's and 10 WW's you would more likely draw a WW, but in this instance you drew a CW. Usyk is better p4p.
     
  6. Malph

    Malph Active Member Full Member

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    Almost nobody gets beat up in Taekwondo because, unless it's full contact, its play fighting.

    Its mostly points by touching with no hand strikes to the head. Unless someone makes a mistake there are generally no injuries.
     
  7. Dirsspaardis

    Dirsspaardis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Which one you’re referring to International or World?
    I’ve done both, World is pretty much always full contact and people get pretty ****ed up there, this is the TKD that’s in Olympic Games. First one to connect often knocks his opponent TF out.
    Punches to the head are not really used, no point trying to reduce the distance and get knocked out with a tornado kick.

    International is lighter, punches to the head do count and in the beginner levels those are pretty much the only ones that land as guys are not “elastic” enough to do high kicks with precision.
    Most events are not full contact but ref doesn’t really police it and things go out of hand all the time.
     
  8. Malph

    Malph Active Member Full Member

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    I agree with your comment about pound for pound and fantasy football.

    I dont buy into your comment that the heavyweight champ is the best fighter.

    Are you talking about in a barroom brawl or street fight? Then maybe. But then a wrestler or judo guy also has a legitimate shot. As does a guy who is just real good with elbows, head butts and broken bottles.

    There are weight classes in boxing for a reason. Boxers are generally compared against boxers of their own weight class. You cant make statements like Wilder is greater than Manny or Mayweather because they'd never beat him in a boxing match.

    Weight classes. They are a thing.

    You can only really judge guys by how they do against the weight class they are in.

    I think that is obvious and the way it's been in boxing for a long time.
     
  9. Malph

    Malph Active Member Full Member

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    Perhaps my info is dated. I played at Tae Kwon Do many many years ago. I remember it being what I'd call light contact with no hand strikes to the head. Of couse mistakes were sometimes made.

    The kicks could be spectacular but....

    Personally I found the rule set to be unrealistic as training for actual fighting. I moved on to other things.

    Once again, if my info is dated on the full contact nature I stand corrected.
     
  10. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    The heavyweight championship was always held in high regard in all of sports because the heavyweight champion is supposed to be able to beat everyone.

    That's the way IT'S ALWAYS BEEN. Not just a long time. ALWAYS.

    That's why Norman Mailer once wrote that dominant heavyweight champions tend to be CRAZY. Because guys in the lower weight classes only have to be able to beat people in their weight class. They only have to be the best fighter from 119 to 122, for example (a laughable division). If they lose to a man who weighs 126, that's okay. They aren't expected to beat him.

    Heavyweights have to be able to beat EVERYONE. And with that comes an enormous amount of pressure. Not only boxers call you out. People on the street call you out. That's why the best heavyweight is the BEST fighter. Because he can't say "You're too big for me." He has to be able to beat everyone.

    In case you were too busy watching Taekwondo and weren't aware, pound-for-pound was created back in the 1930s when Joe Louis was a dominant heavyweight but Ring wanted to recognize Henry Armstrong because he held titles in three of the eight weight classes at the time. Armstrong could never beat Joe Louis. But they wanted to recognize Armstrong for his talent and success.

    It's a gimmick. It rewards people for success in lower weights even though EVERYONE admits they can't beat everyone.

    What it DOES NOT DO is show who the best fighter in the whole world is. The best fighter is the guy who can beat EVERYONE. BIG. LITTLE. TALL. SHORT. 105 pounds. 305 pounds. ALL fighters. Actually get in the ring and beat them. Not in "pretend" world. In the real world.

    Pound for pound is a nice thing to discuss. But it's make believe.

    And Usyk and his fans can't claim he's the best POUND-FOR-POUND if he isn't even the best fighter in his own division.

    He's a heavyweight. And you can't be the fourth or fifth or sixth best heavyweight, and claim you're pound-for-pound the best.

    Heavyweight boxing is where all that pretend pound-for-pound garbage ends.

    You have to be able to beat everyone.

    And the fact that Usyk, Hunter, Glowacki and Brieidis all fought in the same division as Wilder as amateurs and all turned pro as heavyweights, like Wilder did, and then they all bailed after a couple fights and decided to go after cruiserweight titles first, shows what they think of themselves.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
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  11. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    i know right ,

    yo bro i made your shirt already be sure to contact @IsaL to get it.

    it was extrasmall right ??
     
  12. IsaL

    IsaL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes XS it was, the small would have been to baggy on him. Also, did you do it in Magenta, he's very picky about his colors.
     
  13. Dirsspaardis

    Dirsspaardis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sounds like ITF, that version focuses on the technique and martial arts aspect, as it’s the original TKD, WTF (yeah... I know) version was created specifically for fighting, less martial art, more sport hence the Olympics.

    Neither are very realistic fighting-wise, I agree. Hence why i kept training for purely physical, puch/kick technique purposes (liked the martial art as such too) and switched more to kick boxing and later boxing.
     
  14. Malph

    Malph Active Member Full Member

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    By your logic, the best fighter in the world is the heavyweight champ. It's a way to look at it.

    Boxing is boxing. Its sort of fighting but with a strict set of rules and equipment allowed. The rules include weight classes. It's not a street fight.


    The best boxer is not, at least to my way of thinking, necessarily the biggest guy who can beat the smaller guys.

    I thought Mayweather was the best boxer of his era. I cant rate Ruiz or Arreola higher as boxers because they could probably sit on Mayweather and squish him.

    Accomplishments against people in his weight classes factor in heavily. At least for me and I suspect many others.
     
  15. shanahan14

    shanahan14 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Posts like these should not be taken seriously. How in the hell can you find him overrated? If you don't think he is P4P #1 then that is fine, but overrated? The guy cleaned out one of the best divisions in boxing with ease. The only competitive fight he had was against Breidis, who is a tough customer and has a KO win over Charr.

    - Glowaczki
    - Hunter
    - Huck
    - Briedis
    - Gassiev
    - Bellew

    He handed 4 of those guys their first loss. I am not ready to crown him HW champ just yet, but you also realize he is fighting at a weight where some guys are very heavy and rehydrate 15+ lbs? How is that any different than Canelo being 170+ lbs yet fighting at 154? Usyk belongs near the top.
     
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