carl froch? a force or a fraud...

All of this math would only be valid if everyone from every country was fighting everyone from other countries. As it is American prospects get knocked off more quickly than British prospects because they fight in America where there are more good fighters to beat them and knock their career off track while they are still on their way up.

So prospects are found out much more quickly. Meaning they don't last long enough to build up a fanbase, and an impressive record, so they don't make it to the title fight stage, so relatively fewer of them fight for a title meaning relatively fewer end up as champions.

 

Thats the thing, Britain produces a few good fights. America produces alot of good fighters, AND great fighters. Therein lies the difference. Hatton is a P4P mega star in Britain, Hatton in America probably wouldnt have made it past the amatuers if he was an American. HAtton isnt **** in America. Hatton type fighers would never be **** in America. So what can we infer from Hatton being the best fighter you've produced since Lennox Lewis? Britain produces **** fighters.

We've been over this dummy. How many of those 3 British titlest would be champs if they actually fought the best in the division. Khan would get Hatton'd if he fought Alexander or Bradley right now. Alexander would murder that kid. Alexander smashed a fighter Hatton couldnt even look good against, and you think he'd lose to Khan who got KO'd by a journeymen? Ward would massacre Froch right now. Froch needed a gift SPLIT decision in limey town, and you think that'd he'd stand a chance against Ward or hell Dirrell in a rematch?

Haye gets knocked the **** out by either Klitscko. So in reality if it wasnt for the fact that there are 4 belts in every division, Britain wouldnt have any champs. Compare that with Mayweather or Mosley who are considered the top at Welter. Compare that to Alexander and Bradley who are considered the top at 140. Compare that to Paul Williams who is the best at 154. Compare that to Kelly Pavlik who is the best at 160. Compare that to Chad Dawson who is the best period from 168-cruiserweight period.

There is no comparison. Per capita would matter if there wasnt an alphabet soup system in boxing when any bum can get a belt. Hell the only fighter who actually beat a champion was Haye, and he beat the weakest heavyweight in the division. Froch won a vacant title. Khan won a vacant title. They arent champions. They havent beaten any champions. :rofl

Mayweather
Mosley
Alexander
Bradley
Pavlik
Williams
Dawson
Donaire

6 fighters rated in the top 10 pound 4 pound. 7 if you count protectorates in Puerto Rico.

How many has Britain got? 0

You got 3 paper titlests. Who arent champions in the real meaning of the word. We dont count paper titlest, maybe thats what passes for greatness in lil britain, but no here son.

Like I said, my state produces greater fighters then Britain. 5 times less the population, yet we've produced Mayweathers, Hearns, Ketchels, Joe Louis, Toney's. Who you produced?

Where you at per capita ***** boy?

Again, you're a *****. You cant back up what you say. You know that I'd squash you like I squash every argument you make. If you are a true boxing fan it shouldnt matter how "tedious" a fight is. I've scored Hopkins vs Wright, DLH vs Trinidad ect. Im a boxing fan so I wanna know who won on my card. Please dont try and make excuses for your ***** made attitude.

 

Meaning "I lied" I cant back up what I said, and even though the guy im arguing against has backed up every single one of his claims with sources, im just gonna be a ***** about it and continue to lie because I havent got anything else to fall back on.

You know I'd actually respect you if you had the balls to atleast post a scorecard even though we both know you're lying about the ring and Bn mag statements.

Hell atleas produce a page number or date to which the ring mag scored the fight so atleast you can leave out of here with some dignity.

*yawn* what are you stalling or something?

Luck. He'll be exposed like Hatton and Khan soon enough. Well technicaly he was already exposed by a prospect given that 80% of people would have Dirrell winning a rematch and basically nobody rates Froch now.

A shot Roy Jones. Even then he got stopped, not knocked out moving up in weight, he didnt get brutally sparked embarrassingly infront of millions by a former flyweight.

But it was funny hear those brits go dead silent and all the filipinos clowning yall leaving the stadium. :rofl

Source?


Stop being a ***** and post your scorecard/

 

You assume that there are "more good fighters" when I've just posted the facts which prove that to be wrong.

I agree with your basic point. British and European boxers take a long time to be matured, but the other side to that, is that there are more styles over here. Not only do our fighters fight British guys, there are always other Europeans on our cards, often Africans and occassionally Americans or South Americans. Because of that, you could say our fighters get it tougher as prospects.

Regardless, this is them as inexperienced fighters. At world level, Britain produces more elite fighters than America, per capita, and that's a fact.

 

If you mean this

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And

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are examples of "Elite" i.e skilless sluggers, you're right, BRitain does produce more then America.

 

A gutsy, powerful but very limited, big hearted Calzaghe-obsessed ****.

 

You mention Hatton but despite him being "****" he beat two pound for pound fighters in his career. Which active American can say the same? Hopkins, Mayweather, Mosley? Two are at the very end of their career. And you talk about styles yet your best boxer in the 140lb division at the time, lost every single round and got stopped against Hatton. There is no active American who beats Hatton at his best.

...please reply with the usual tedious comments about holding and other illegal tactics.

Per capita has nothing to do with alphabet titles. What the **** are you talking about? And you can dispute facts to spew your own bull****, which would be like me saying "Cleverly KO's every American at 175lbs", "Khan knocks out Bradley and Alexander on the same night".

Your rhetoric is awful.

Feel free to post the all the great fighters from Michigan.

And you couldn't ever dream of beating me in a debate. You just post the same boring things and over and over I actually ignore your stupidity to keep the argument on-going. Again, I'm not posting my card to suit you - Why should I? You've shown no intelligence so it would be like explaining physics to a 2 year old or explaining boxing to a guy who has an ignorant patriotic view of boxing...oh...

 

Britain produces more elite boxers per capita than America.

Fact.

 

And who was that? An old Tszyu who hadnt fought in a year who was fouled repeatedly in england < shocker

Who else? Guaranteed they were past it.

Mosley
Mayweather
Winky Wright
Roy Jones Jr
Hopkins

Thats 5. Im sure there are probably others. However Roy and Co beat fighters who were rated top 10 P4P in their primes. Hatton beat Tyszu who was past it, and I think Castillo who was well past it. Not the same as Mayweather beating a prime Corrales, or Mosley beating a prime OLDH is it? Nah didnt think so.

Actually the ass whooping Hatton took at the hands of Mayweather would have happened at 140 yet Hatton "wasnt ready".

So technically Hatton ducked our best at 140.

Devon Alexander would knock Hatton out. I truly believe that. He crumpled a guy Hatton went 12 ugly rounds with like it was nothing. If Devon Alexander fought the Hatton that Mayweather fought, I feel Alexander stops him.

Yet it does. Your "champions" arent the same of most of our champions.

You see. Chad Dawson, Shane Mosley, Mayweather, Ward, Williams, Pavlik, Alexander, Cunningham and Bradley are ranked either 1 or 2 in their respective divisions by ring magazine.

on the other hand

Khan is ranked 4th at Junior Welter
Froch is ranked 3rd at Super middle
Haye is ranked 3rd at Heavyweight

They arent true champions. Froch and Khan won vacant belts. They didnt beat a champion. Thats the definition of paper titlest ask anyone on ESB. Haye actually did beat a champion yet he beat the weakest champion, valuev who probably should have lost to Holyfield but holy was robbed.

Therein lies the difference. American fighters beat champions for their status, British fighters pick up scraps i.e vacated titles.

Does it hurt that a small state has greater fighters then a entire country?

.

:rofl You're funny kid really. Im actually gonna bump your Pavlik loses to Mayweather thread tomorrow. Just for some more laughs. :yep

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

I'm happy to keep debating this but stop making such stupid points. It's impossible to keep up with someone who sounds like such a fanboy all the time. If you want to debate one thing, fine, but you keep bringing up different, irrelevant points. It leads to a complete mess of a debate. It's annoying now. Keep on the subject at hand, ok?

It doesn't matter - Hatfon beat him. It's funny how Hatton detractors take the victory away from him when Tszyu admits he was beaten by the better man.

Ah, yes, Jones as well. I'm not sure about Wright, but it's probably true. The sad thing is, 4 out of those 5 are at the very end of their careers. Which active fighter has beaten top opponents like Hatton did, who didn't start their career in 1967? Mayweather. That's it.

And Mayweather didn't beat a prime Corrales either. He beat a good version but that's it. Corrales was never a great fighter, anyway, and I'm a huge fan of his. He won't make it into the Hall of Fane, unless for the reason he died prematurely.

He didn't duck the best at 140. Mayweather actually refused a fight previous to Hatton saying he wasn't ready, so it works both ways. When it happened, the better man won.

Alexander's best wins: A worn out Juan Urango and injured, shot Junior Witter. The stuff of legends, right? I can't believe you claimed he was P4P earlier. He's not even top 20. The idea he beats prime Hatton is laughable.

"Ask anyone on ESB" You do realize that all the lineal titles come from, in your definition, paper titles? At one point, Joe Frazier was a paper titlist. Mike Tyson was. Your definition is wrong, anyway. A paper title is IBC or whatever, not one of the big four.

No, it doesn't because it's untrue. You do realize that after those boxers you named, the next best is Chris Byrd, right?

Feel free. Everyone who posted got schooled mainly because, like you, they know nothing about styles.

 

Jack I have to briefly interject yours and MW squabble, in fairness Floyd Jr did beat a PRIME J.L-Castillo unlike Hatton and where's your proof of Floyd Jr ducking Hatton at 140? I only know of the other way around.

 

Yeah, I agree that Mayweather beat a prime Castillo. I think Castillo was almostca great fighter too.

It was claimed in an old Boxing News. I think it was also covered on the internet as I've seen it posted before, but I don't know where. It's all besides the point though.

 

Muh huh. You got a scorecard for Froch vs Dirrell? Or are you still bitching out?

Yep typical Brit answer when it comes to boxing. Low blows, excessive hitting and holding, rabbit punching, body slams...Doesnt matter our guy won! :rofl

Tszyu was past it btw. Hadnt fought in a year was a part time fighter. Hatton gets mangled against a prime Tszyu/

And there's a fresh crop that will take their place. Hatton beat 2 P4P top 10 fighters when they were shot, Winky, Mosley, Hop, May ect ect beat top P4P fighters when they were prime.


Please dont compare someone of Hattons abilities with true prime for prime elites. Hatton isnt even rated an ATG. Hell he's barely HOF.

[qupte]And Mayweather didn't beat a prime Corrales either. He beat a good version but that's it.[/quote]
:rofl Corrales was undefeated and seen as the favorite in the fight and rated top 5 P4P. How wasnt it a prime Corrales?

Doesnt matter. Floyd still beat a prime undefeated Corrales in the prime of his career, undefeated, the favorite. Corrales probably wont make HOF, or might sneak in, but he's still a better fighter then Hatton ever managed to beat.

Nope. Hattons own father said Hatton wasnt ready. Floyd wanted Hatton after the Tszyu fight. They declined.
[qupte]Alexander's best wins: A worn out Juan Urango and injured, shot Junior Witter. The stuff of legends, right? I can't believe you claimed he was P4P earlier. He's not even top 20. The idea he beats prime Hatton is laughable.[/quote]

I never claimed Alexander was P4P. I said he was rated 2nd in his division. At 23 he's already a unified champion.

And why would Urango be worn out? The only fight he ever really took any punishment was against Bailey. Neither Hatton or Berto ever hurt Urango. He was as game as ever, he just ran into Alexander who is a better fighter then both Hatton and Berto,

Wrong. Joe Frazier and Mike Tyson made the title by beating other champions. Thats when a paper titlest no longer is a paper titlest. He in effect legitimizes the belt. However if you win a vacant title or dont beat a reigning champion you are still a paper titlest. Its seems you dont even have a clear knowledge of boxing rules.

Mike Tyson unified and became The CHAMP. Frazier beat Ali and thus the number 1 contender and became The CHAMP. Froch and Khan have yet to beat a reigning champion. Thus paper titlests.

Really? Who has Britain produced at heavyweight the level of Joe Louis?

Who has Britain produced at welterweight the level of Tommy Hearns?

Who has Britain produced at middleweight the level of Stanley Ketchel?

Who has Britain produced p4p the level of James Toney?

Who has Britain produced P4P the level of Floyd Mayweather?


I dont even count Sugar Ray Robinson who was born in Detroit lol

:rofl YEah styles matter when the guy outweighs you by 20lbs, 5 inches and 6 inches of reach. Yeah ok Jack. :rofl Pacquiao can beat Klitscko. He has the right "style" :rofl

 

Stop saying "muh huh"...are you 9 or something?

Again, I'm not posting that scorecard If you want to debate it, go and read what the respected journalists of The Ring said when they gave Froch the win. Or what any other credible person at the arena said or find the judges scorecards.

Tszyu obviously disagrees with you but I guess you know more, right? And he gave as good as he got, so it's irrelevant.

A fresh crop will take their place? My point is, is that they aren't. Talk about people like Dawson all you want, but they are doing nothing significant.

Corrales was horehbly weight drained, therefore, not the best version. It would be like me saying "Tszyu was his highest P4P, how was he not prime?".

Of course it matters if the guy he beat wasn't great. How can it be a great win, if his opponent was just a really good fighter?

Frazier was champion BEFORE he beat Ali. After Ali retired, that's how the lineage was restored, by fighting for so-called paper titles. It happens in boxing.

Lennox Lewis beat better fighters than Louis.

No welter has matched Hearns.

Bob Fitzsimmons was a better fighter than Ketchel.

Pound for pound, Fitzsimmons was better than both Toney and Mayweather. Mayweather would also be beaten by Buchanan.

Size matters if you can use it. Pavlik wouldn't be able to use it against Mayweather.