Carl Froch now the 7th best Super middleweight in the world?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by MichiganWarrior, Nov 7, 2010.


  1. RafaelGonzal

    RafaelGonzal Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    way ****ing overrated! but what you have to remember is why? its because he is one of Calzaghe's signature wins .....mother****er was exposed hard yet he gets away with pulling a ***** move and Dirrell is scorched for doing the same......double vision yet he drives off in car

    Dirrell and Kessler are both full of ****.

    Froch beat Kessler he just wasnt awarded the Decision and a case can be made for Froch getting a gift vs Dirrell, but Dirrell fought like a ***** and I cant see giving him that decsion in a close and ugly fight one in which Froch was forcing the fight while Dirrell was being negative and running for his life.
     
  2. Big Left

    Big Left Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dirrell has his career wrecked by AA and now has some sort of brain damaged.

    Beleive me if Dirrell could not beat Froch before he had brain damage there is no way he is gonna do it now.

    Kessler is retired due to wear and tear.

    So I would say Bute is number one for being undefeated and have a decent resume. Also for percieved talant.

    Ward is number 2 for his win over Kessler who was number 1 at the time. But apart from that he has not done a lot.

    Froch is number 3 for his impressive resueme of Pascal, Dirrel, Taylor and his performance against Kessler in Denmark.

    AA is number 4 on his MW exploits and KO power.
     
  3. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    1 - Ward /Kessler/Miranda
    2 - Kessler /Froch/Andrade
    3 - Froch /Dirrell/Pascal/Taylor/close with Kessler
    4 - Dirrell /AA/close with Froch
    5 - Bute /Andrade/Miranda/Bika


    I dont rank fighters purely off of the ever subjective 'potential', I rate fighters off of what they have done. No way Bute should be ahead of Kessler based on what little hes done. Kessler win over Froch is better then anything Bute has, put together almost.

    Ranking fighters isnt based on who you think is the most talented..... if that was the case someone could put a 14-0 prospect who they think would beat everyone up at number 1 just because 'they think' hes the best. You have to add credentials and what someone has actually accomplished into the mix to go along with their talent.

    What has Bute done? Beat m'man Andrade (and BARELY beat him in their first fight), someone I love but who was taken to school every second of every round against Kessler. Solid fighter but not on Frochs level. Beat my boy Miranda? Come on.... lol... Bika is a solid fighter, ok, once again not on Frochs level.

    He hasnt done anything. When Kessler beat Froch, it solidified his position at number 2. He was the former #1, and by beating Froch he kept himself up there. Its pretty simple.

    I could have Dirrell number 3 and that wouldnt bother me too much, due to how close the first Froch fight was, and his AA win was solid.

    But one win over AA and a controversial fight with Froch doesnt beat out Frochs win over Pascal (please.... save your excuses) win over Taylor, close fight with Kessler and close fight with Dirrell. He simply has more credentials IMO, and Dirrell is going to have to do a bit more then have two controversial fights in order to put himself above that.


    Nah.... I'm fairly confident in my ranking of them. Its not a popularity contest and its not a H2H list and its not a talent calculator. Thats not how I make my top 10.

    If I was going off of talent ALONE (which is simply absurd) I would have it

    1 - Dirrell
    2 - Bute
    3 - Ward
    4 - AA
    5 - Kessler
    6 - Johnson
    7 - Maybe Froch.... Id have to look at some of the other super middles.

    However, thats not the way one forms a top 10 of a division, because it completely excludes what fighters actually have done, and never allows fighters to rise above their talents, which Froch does fight in, and fight out.

    So you are taking AA to knock Froch out huh? What round? :think I will be taking Froch to win a very close fight, taking an SD or maybe even a UD, going down once or twice. It wont suprise me if AA stops him, but I think Froch could win, and probably should win.

    We will see.
     
  4. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    So why is Ward your number 1 again? Surely arent his wins over Green and Miranda I hope.

    So Kessler aint this, Kessler aint that, Kessler is overrated, Kessler barely beat caveman Froch, blah blah....

    Alright, your point is clear that Kessler aint much. You agree with the other guy that says AA would wreck him right? ok.... right.

    So why you got Ward at 1 again?
     
  5. USboxer1981

    USboxer1981 The Real Def. MVP Full Member

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    Honestly , dirrell fights like such a coward and has pulled so many bull**** moves, how could anyone respect him?
     
  6. rocky538

    rocky538 Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Dirrell is the goods and he belongs at number one or two, you can say whatever you want about the guy but he's incredibly skilled. I'd put Ward at number three just because his resume isn't as good as Bute and Dirrell, even though based on skills Ward is #1. I'd put Froch above Glen Johnson though for sure, Froch's a tough fight for anyone.
     
  7. stiflers mum

    stiflers mum Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :thumbsup
     
  8. MJK

    MJK Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If Kessler is no good and an eurobum, why Ward is so high on your list, since his only good win is Kessler?
     
  9. MJK

    MJK Well-Known Member Full Member

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    a couple of weeks ago Bika got DQ against Mendy. So Mendy won even being KO in the first round. I dont want to compare Mendy and Direll, but what did Direll did to be in 4th position? Got beaten by Froch (even if you think he won against Froch) and got a DQ win vs Abraham. So right now, i will not put Direll anywhere near top 5 (on resume, not talent). As talent goes, the sky is the limit for him.
     
  10. pasky2000

    pasky2000 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What's your top 8 lets say considering only talent ?
     
  11. MJK

    MJK Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Please man, if after the Miranda fight, the Ward fight and the Johnson fight your still enamor by Green you have a problem. he is not even in the top 10 of the division right now.
     
  12. THN

    THN Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :good Well said
     
  13. MJK

    MJK Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Good question. I said that so that people dont think I dont understand why they put Direll on top.

    Lets say pre-S6 since then a lot of injuries occured and it's hard to know if these fighters will come back as they were.

    Direll is the best to move, quick hands and such.

    Taylor very good jab, can move around also and control the fight and makes you look bad

    Ward seems to be the Jack of all trades of SMW. Got it all but master at nothing.

    Bute for his awkward style and deceptive power. He his at his best when he find his sweet spot between being far enough not to be hit and close enough to hit.

    For the heart and the confidence, Froch by a mile.

    For the one KO power punch look no further than Abraham.

    If for you talent can come from resilience and pressure, lets not forget the likes of Andrade, the best for these.

    You probably didnt expect this answer, but I wanted to show you that talent can be very subjective and can be find in multiple ways, since theirs a lot of tools you can use to win a fight on the ring. But since the talent is usually viewed as quickness of feets and hands and reflexes, it's hard not to put Direll over there.

    That being said, talent is just the beginning. It's the way you work on it, use it, etc. that makes the fighter what he is.
     
  14. MichiganWarrior

    MichiganWarrior Still Slick! Still Black! Full Member

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    Ward is number 1 because he has displayed the most skill, domination and savvy of any boxer in the super middleweight division. He completely and utterly toyed with Kessler. He made Kessler his *****.

    I dont rank fighters based off of wins over C level fighters. I base it off what they show me in the ring.

    You and your ilk base it off of 1. hype, 2. beating bums, 3. Gift decisons ala Froch over Dirrell.
     
  15. MichiganWarrior

    MichiganWarrior Still Slick! Still Black! Full Member

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    whats your basis for thinking Froch beats Abraham?

    Lets see.

    1. Overrated power (has not managed to hurt one fighter in the tournament)

    2. Overrated Chin (has been hurt in his last 3 fights. Taylor rocked him. Dirrell had his leg shaking, and Kessler stunned him.

    3. Could possibly outbox Abraham(But he wont, he will get forced into a brawl like he was with Kessler, he has no discipline)


    All of this points to a brutal KO.




    You wanna know why Abraham is better then Froch? Watch the both of their Dirrell fights. Who cuts off the ring better? Who actually landed a few solid shots on Dirrells chin?