Carl Froch v Andre Ward

Oh and it's beyond obvious that Froch needs a KO to beat Ward.

I fear a lopsided UD to Ward on the cards.

 

Wouldn't it be quality if Ward seemed to do enough to win a wide decision in a competitive fight, but Froch won a robbery :rofl :happy atsch

I'd probably leave ESB.....forever.

Froch does have a slim chance IMO. But from what I've seen of both, Ward has faced a load of solid dangerman, Kessler being better all round than Froch, but then Green D) for, well, nothing really, then Bika for the roughhouse and awkwardness, and then Abraham for the power (I don't think Froch hits too hard, but is heavy handed enough to keep most foes earnest)

Frochy had Dirrell for some backfoot slickness. Ward of course, is much more economic in movement, although we have seen him go in all directions competantly. I think both the Kessler fight, where Mikkel made an out-of-character but relatively simple adjustment and got Froch out of his languid, awkward backfoot game, which Froch tries to hypnotise with, and the Johnson fight, where Froch did get caught and had a low punch output until he decided to stand his ground and start throwing back, show that Froch, on the backfoot, is not to hard to figure out (unless you're Arthur Abraham)

Froch going forward can over exert himself, he can be fairly easy to read, he mixes his shots well, is durable, and does have n odd way of counter punching, his angled jab and looping hooks often look pure class. They sometimes look comical (his right uppercut at times for instance) He is fairly plodding, but awkward, tough and determined, the last two factors are proven to make the sometimes ordinary looking fighters dangerous men for the full 12, and whilst Froch is workmanlike in his approach, but certainly not ordinary, it is those factors that will see him make a tougher night against Ward than most. He has fought his way to the Super Six final, regardless of his loss to Kessler (I think fighters being molly-coddled shocked quite a few people that forgot what it was like to see someone lose a comfortable decision in a competitive fights, it happens, Kessler is ace, so what) and looking horrible against Dirrell (lots of quality fighters have been made to look horrid by out-and-out, ahem, negative stylists, Dirrell didn't look astonishing himself, just a **** fight in general with little redeeming features) he has come back, fought through some tough tests and, to a degree, made amends.

Ward has done good jobs on all of the guys in front of him....Kessler in particular, that was a special shutout really. I didn't rate too much before, I was instantly a believer (and no I'm not making a Religious joke there ;-)) But, as their fight showed, Carl Froch and Mikkel Kessler are different fighters. Do I think, on his best day that Kessler is a better SMW than Froch? Yes, and not just because of their fight together. If Froch had won convincingly, I probably still would've said Kessler was the better fighter (maybe that's in hindsight though If he'd done that, then Arthur then Glencoffe...well I'd have been at fever pitch by now for sure)

But does that mean Froch can not make a better fight of it than Kessler? Kessler was so out of his rhythm he was totally disarmed. The headbutts did him in as well, I actually think being able to implement **** like that is a bit of an art in itself to be honest, it's old school craftiness, which Ward seems to have a lot of. Armchair fans might sneer, but it's a fight FFS. But I think Froch can, whilst pretty open and not hard to hit (low slung left hand means Ward will pretty much tag him when he chooses I reckon) he is an intimidating fighter. When Ward i right in his chest, tieing him up and he gets a bit of success in whacking him, Froch will open up, catch him unawares and throw unorthodox combinations. Ward is not Roy Jones Jr at his best, we know that; he will get puzzled at times, and he will have to make adjustments. He is a quality fighter, but I'm not certain he's an all conquerer. Froch is a quality fighter, and a live opponent. To expect him to be bowled over in the way that Kessler, Bika, Green and Arthur were is silly IMO. We had never seen Ward tested before, I imagine Kessler was totally baffled by the bag of tricks this guy was pulling special **** out of

But Froch has had time, has built more experience, and has had time to see what Ward has to offer. I very much imagine it's going to be down to Ward to figure Froch out, and the different things he brings, rather than Froch walking Ward down. Froch will try and be tricky IMO. Kessler was a quality straight forward, accurate one-two kinda' guy, but Froch is an odd fighter...and that's what it will take to truly test a well-schooled fighter like Ward IMO, one that can surprise him.

Saying all that I imagine Ward to win an easyish decision, he has two massive advantages which are too hard to overlook (mobility and handspeed), and will overcome rougher patches than he's had so far in his career (rather than that kd early on when he got caught squared up) and stifle Froch more times than he spits due to him appearing a more versatile fighter. I say appearing, because when the best fight the best you never know what will happen. Anyone saying Froch has 0% chance is looking too much into it, he hasn't got this far by being that many levels below Ward, styles or not.

Ward 116-112 Froch

 

:yepexactly:gooddeal

 

froch needs to start winning early rounds he takes to long to start imo, his left hand also does need some adjustment this will never happen though, so we will just have to wait and see:yep

 

I don't think Wards KO stats have fooled many people. Only 6 votes out of over 200 for a Ward stoppage....

 

I did think about outclassing...but other durable opponents like Kessler, Bika and Abraham have done the 12 with him, and Allan Green?!? Miranda went the distance with him, I don't buy into K.O%, but even with what I've seen, Ward is not even as hard a puncher as say, Timothy Bradley is IMO (in a P4P sense before any nobs (not you Gaz ) start anything, nahmsayin ;-))

 

I will add that his headbutt...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Oil1wLDGQ[/ame]

...isn't as potent as P-Dubs fists...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-wfWVRPGM[/ame]

 

Theres a lot of reason to suspect he will have trouble landing. Ward IS hard to hit. The amount of clean effective punches landed on him in his last 5 fights at world level is pretty negligible. As well as the fact he has fast reflexes and Froch's hands are very, very slow.

 

Bring back P-Dubs

 

It's funny people going on about Ward being a featherfist and having 13/24KO's.

How does Carl Froch's KO ratio look at world level? I'll tell ya. 16%. He's not a murderous puncher himself.

 

No one looks good against Froch whose boxing skills and effectivess make this a very close fight in my opinion. Ward has looked very hard to beat, but has a horrible style to watch usually but I think he is going to throw and land more punches due to having faster hands.

Ward UD for me

 

I don't think Froch is slow, really. Watching him live, you get the sense he's actually pretty fast but the issue is that he throws wide punches and when you add into his abnormally long arms, he does seem a lot slower than he actually is. The difference in actual hand speed between him and Ward isn't that much, I don't think and, like Johnson said, Froch throws a lot of awkward punches which are hard to see and they probably counteract any speed deficit which would stop him from landing.

It's hard to disagree that Ward has taken many flush punches but Kessler didn't really throw many because he couldn't get into his rhythm, Bika is a wild inaccurate puncher and Abraham is...well, Abraham. I think in one round he threw 9 punches? So, yeah, it's hard to imagine how Ward could get hit by many really.

According to the facts, Kessler landed 29% of his punches against Ward yet only landed 19% against Froch. I don't have the punch stats for Froch/Abraham but I've seen that fight and Abraham/Ward a couple of times and I think Ward took more punches than Froch did.

I'm not saying Froch is better defensively but I do think the difference is a lot smaller than you think. Nobody at world level as really struggled to hit Ward so I don't see why Froch, who is very effective with his awkwardness, would be any different.

Ward's style always has and will always look like a world beater against someone straight up. Not just with Ward himself but similar fighters from the past. Against someone who is awkward, they tend to struggle.

 

You must have some vision problems if you're seriously suggesting there isn't quite a disparity in handspeed. There just is. No glossing over it with his weird arms and punches (which I agree he does have). Ward is just a lot faster, second only to Dirrell in this tourny. Froch is probably the slowest, for handspeed.

The punch stats are bollocks. Nobody wanted Kessler to be landing more than I. But he just didn't. It took him 4 or 5 rounds to land his signature right hand as far as I can remember. He got nothing going at all, his jab was falling short all the time and he couldn't measure his right hand off it. Stats aren't needed. The key difference is probably the fact most of Kessler's successful work in the Froch fight was bodywork, I don't know how they record them or whether they even do effectively.

You'll see for yourself in this fight, Froch won't land a lot. I don't see enough enough clean punches from Froch period, which I think comes down to the handspeed issue. In this fight where he's against somebody with speed again, its going to be quite a problem. Ward's feet are going to be faster and are so are his reflexes, Froch won't even be getting off a lot nevermind landing a lot.

 

Exactly. I love how people are now making Ward out to be some kind of glass jawed, heartless fighter and Froch will stop him with one big shot if he lands :nut


Ward 117-111 or 118-110 and everyone will be surprised at just how easy it looks imo

 

I think the reasons behind Froch's seeming inability to stop or really hurt people badly at this level is a combination of factors.

1. A lot of durable opponents, Abraham, Kessler, Johnson, Pascal (fairly - but definitely more stoppable IMO than the others).

2. Handspeed. I think this contributes to people half blocking and taking the heat off a lot of his work. You don't see too much landing on the point of the chin, as maybe it did at domestic level.

3. Punching style. A good percentage of his punching is clubbing style shots around the side of the head.

I think all this makes him an accumulation puncher at this level. Heavy thudding hands, like Kelly Pavlik had at middleweight but not really going to stop durable people or those with good defences that are not prone to being stopped on accumulation.

Ward is not a puncher of any note though, that is clear. But then again I don't think Ward talks or plans as if he thinks he is a noted puncher, whereas Froch bangs on about and is seemingly relying on it in this fight.