Carl Williams

Imo it's telling he made such a rookie mistake against Mike (especially given everyone in the whole boxing world knew Mike's left hook had one-shot kayo power). After that I just laughed whenever I saw Carl's name (has NOTHING to do with my feelings toward Weaver, whom I feel was the best heavyweight in the world besides Holmes in the earliest 80s).

 

As much as people rave about Tim Witherspoon he was no better than Carl Williams. And that’s the “Truth”.

 

They looked really good against a Larry Holmes who'd already proved himself in a decline (check out...or do yourself a favor and don't check out, Holmes' quintessentially lame defense against Rodriquez before Witherspoon. A different LH, indeed).

Larry's decline started in the Cooney fight (I can't say the Snipes because it was a punch LH didn't see and he so dominated practically the rest of the fight...even after the kd). His tactical error in not finishing Gerry in the 2nd when it was obvious to everyone he could have underscores this theory imo.

 

When he fought Tyson it had an of air of process of elimination; "Okay, who's left? Carl? Okay Carl, step on up, have your try now." It was a chance again at the big one, but he wasn't going to beat Tyson.

 

The Truth had all the tools to do exactly what Buster Douglas did. Except he dropped his right when he jabbed. When Tyson caught him with a clean lefthook Williams got up but it was on instinct. He was unresponsive to the referee Randy Newman until he stopped it...it wasn't until the ref waved his arms that Carl began to protest.
The Williams camp's position was that you don't stop a fight after only 1 knockdown especially when it's for the championship. That's old school mindset nothing wrong with it except the referee was correct. Carl was not with us until Randy stopped it.

My own view is that if Williams was already making that kind of mistake in round 1 then he wasnt going to beat Tyson.

 

Saw him in a bar when he was here to fight Bruno. That's my claim to fame, that & seeing Lennox open a supermarket with his Mum.

 

Exactly correct. Tyson was kept so busy that he literally was the only elite fighter facing rated contenders. This meant there were a lot of fighters sitting on a ranking going as stale as old cheese.

 

Oh I dunno, I think that was actually the high-water mark of his career. He was never held in that level of esteem before or after that fight. The whole "People's Champion" syndrome. He was hot for a while, but the warning signs were there against Ferguson (whom he should have blown out) and then after Weaver the boxing world did sort of a collective "oh never mind."

 

It should have added to his confidence if anything. He went in there thinking he could win and left the ring knowing he could. They mirrored each other 415 rounds tit for tat, jab for jab. Carl just had an edge in quickness and sharpness. I would think a fight like that would have inspired him to go 15 rounds with a master. He must have learned a lot.

 

Yes, I see it the same way as you do. Witherspoon was the best guy Tyson never faced.

But who could ever tell what spoon was going to turn up?

That’s why overall I don’t rate Tim anymore than Carl Williams. They both gave Larry a tough fight. And in a lot of ways it’s really only taking Larry close that makes some people think Tim stands above all the other alphabet guys. Well Carl did the same. He took Larry close too. Outboxing him better than anyone ever did on the rounds that he won.

Sure Weaver wiped williams out but Smith wiped Tim out. So it is pretty similar. Tim fought more often, but overall I don’t think his best wins eclipse Williams at all. When they met, Williams deserved to win but it was a split verdict that could have went either way.

Who knows, all these years I’ve thought a good version of Spoon really should have tested Tyson, but we all know Tyson was the only guy that the industry wanted see winning. Tysonmania was huge. They wanted to keep that ball rolling. And like I always say, if you can control who fights who you can get the result you want. You can even get the best fighters beat. Tyson was a star. He was good for boxing. So as good as he was, he had the world at his feet.

Tyson whipped Williams because he was a great fighter.... and probably because Williams had not been overlooked.

Douglas had so many of Williams attributes only he was overlooked. With hindsight I bet King would have not allowed Douglas to fight so many good guys so close to fighting Tyson.

 

Tim did win a version of the title a couple of times where as Williams never did. I don't consider either really a champion but technically Witherspoon was a bit more accomplished.

 

Yeah Witherspoon beat Page who lost to Berbick who Williams beat. They both took Larry so close. Then when Witherspoon and Williams fought each other there was not much between them. I think there isn’t much between them. There probably isn’t many results the other would not replicate.

Beating Tubbs certainly gave Tim another belt. But really without the belt what kind of win is that? There are not many alphabet guys or contenders who are guaranteed to lose to Tubbs. Tony didn’t knock anyone out and only fought hard enough to keep rounds close. just about anybody matched to win who really wanted to win could beat Tubbs and did. Page wasn’t too bothered. I don’t see beating Page or Tubbs as a feather in Tim’s hat. Beating Bruno was probably a bigger deal. At least that guy came to fight.