Carlos monzón vs Roy jones jr 15 rounds!! 160 pounds

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Charlietf, Mar 23, 2020.


Monzón vs Roy Jones 15 rounds 160 pounds

  1. Monzón by decision

    5 vote(s)
    11.9%
  2. Monzón by ko or tko

    19 vote(s)
    45.2%
  3. Roy Jones by decision

    16 vote(s)
    38.1%
  4. Roy Jones by ko or tko

    2 vote(s)
    4.8%
  5. Draw

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Big Red

    Big Red Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Jones was slowing down at that point but still had blazing speed and was the faster fighter vs Tarver and Johnston by a lot.

    I don’t really buy that Jones chin was better when he was younger. He never really took a lot of punishment.
     
  2. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Of course I accept them. I was just pointing out that Carlos enjoyed physical advantages over many of them.

    I'm not implying he had unfair advantages. Of course it was just circumstances. But you can't deny that it didn't help him. It went hand in hand with his style.
     
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  3. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No. There's no need for sarcasm.

    He was a great fighter. But honestly, I'm not that impressed with his resume.
     
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He took good shots off of Toney, Del Valle and Ruiz.

    Tarver caught him with a beatiful shot.

    He had no belief against Johnson.

    He was finished as a top level fighter at that point.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Monzon was
    3/4lb heavier than Valdes fight 2
    1/4lb lighter fight 1
    3/4lb heavier than Licata
    1/2 lb heavier than Mundine
    3/4lb heavier than Bouttier fight 2
    Level weights fight 1
    I/4lb heavier than Bogs
    1/2lb lighter than Benvenuti 2nd fight
    Level weights1st fight
    1/4lb lighter than Tonna
    3/4lbs heavier than Briscoe
    1/4lbs heavier than Moyer
    Do you think he had a weight advantage in any of these fights that could in any way be called significant?
    Monzon was
    2inches taller than Valdez
    1 1/2" taller than Mundine
    2" taller than Bogs
    1/2 " taller than Benvenuti
    2"taller than Bouttier
    3"taller than Moyer
    2 " taller than Tonna
    Do you think the height advantage he enjoyed in these fights decided their outcomes?
    Monzon was
    4 1/2 years older than Valdez , he was 34 in both their fights.
    6 years older thanTonna ,he was 33 .
    10years older than Licata he was 32 when they fought
    2 years older than Mundine he was 32.
    A year older than Briscoe
    2 years older than Bogs

    Who had the advantages here?
    NB The present middleweight champion Alvarez is 5'8"
    He gave away
    4 inches in height to Kovalev
    4 inches to Chavez
    3 1/2 " to Jacobs
    2 1/2" to Golovkin
    1/1/2"to Smith

    And he is a former welterweight..
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    The 1967 draw with Briscoe is an eyebrow raiser. The fight was in Argentina. I have not seen the film, but its likely the judges gave some home cookin' to Argentina's favorite son. Fighting small men, some of whom were older and moving up in weight as your primary competition certainly helps. I did say Monzon's consistency was impressive.

    To quote the 5'8" Briscoe ( Who also was a Welter Weight that moved up to middle ) and came close to stopping Monzon in the rematch, " Getting a draw in Argentina is getting a victory in the United States.
     
  7. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't think the weight was significant at all.

    They had same day weigh-ins back then.

    I was talking about in terms of height and reach.

    Reach being the most important advantage for him.

    It's also obvious why you've not listed Briscoe or Griffith in your examples of the differences in height.
     
  8. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Monzon had the better career and has the better resume than Roy. And Roy's form at 160 was not what it was above that. Stylistically Roy is bad for Monzon. OK, I obviously can see that. Can you not see how Monzon's style is bad for Roy?!?!

    Even if you don't rate Monzon up the ATG list as loftily as I do, everyone should acknowledge that Monzon's MW reign is among the top few best reigns of a single division ever in history. He is a beast, a marvel to watch.
     
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  9. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm not the one rushing into extreme bias and a brick wall, am I?


    So, does any of the above mean that Benvenuti:

    - didn't return the favor to Bethea, 9 weeks later (a bout in which he looked very sharp)?
    - wasn't an established, seasoned Middleweight?
    - wasn't the Middleweight Ring Champion?
    - wasn't the heavy favorite going into the bout?
    - wasn't looking ahead to the bout after Monzon (another match with Griffith)?


    Monzon first beat Benvenuti, in 1970, when the result was considered a startling upset. Monzon then re-matched Benvenuti in 1971.
    Benvenuti deciding not to fight again, after the rematch, does not necessarily mean he was shot. And, it certainly does not mean that he was shot going into his 1970 defense, against Monzon.

    You have an opinion. Mine is that Benevenuti '70 was more seasoned and skilled than Hopkins '93 - and a better win for Monzon.


    I think Roy would do ok.

    But, are we talking Middleweight Roy; Super Middleweight Roy or Light Heavyweight Roy, here? And, how does this relate to Monzon's win over Benvenuti being better than Roy's over Hopkins?



    Griffith was an established, former Middleweight Ring Champion, who had previously won (and lost against) Benvenuti and since then hadn't lost at 160, save for that debacle at the Philadelphia Spectrum, in '68.

    Earlier, in the year he faced Monzon for the first time, he'd beaten Ring-Rated Gutierrez - a 6' 163lb, fully-fledged Middleweight.

    You have an opinion. Mine is that Griffith '71 was more seasoned and skilled than Hopkins '93 - and a better win for Monzon.


    I do not need to answer your questions, just because you ask them.
    I do not need to accept what you post as "indisputable", just because your interpretation of the records might be different from mine.
    There is a rebuttal here, as shown above.
    You need to stop misrepresenting the truth. I can go back and show you my responses to your questions. Similarly, I can go back just a day or so ago and dig up plenty of examples of questions I have asked you, which are directly relevant to topic, to which you have never even attempted an answer.


    Why, thank you. It wouldn't be a complete thread contribution from Mendoza, without at least some patronizing platitudinal BS.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  10. blackfella96

    blackfella96 Member Full Member

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    Well obviously that's going to happen when 1 guy stays in one division his whole career, against a Multi-Weight champion. Overall Roy clearly trumps him.
     
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  11. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Monzon didn't have a better career, nor does he have a better resume.

    Honestly, no, I can't really see how he was a bad stylistic match up for Roy.

    He wasn't fast, he didn't use many punches, and he looks easy enough to hit clean.

    How on earth would he have coped with Roy's speed and style?
     
  12. BundiniBlack

    BundiniBlack Active Member Full Member

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    160-175 this is Roy Jones toughest matchup but I still cant see him losing. Monzon could control 2 and a half minutes of every round but the 30 seconds that Roy is barraging Monzon with combos will likely win at least 7 rounds.
     
  13. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well - not wanting to split hairs but... ...he's going to want to win at least 8 to take a 15-round decision.
     
  14. BundiniBlack

    BundiniBlack Active Member Full Member

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    Obviously. Point is no one beats Roy 160-175
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Both were the same height as Alvarez.
    My point is it is a fallacy that Monzon won fights because
    1. He was the bigger man
    2.Taller
    3.He never faced punchers, as one idiot on this forum will tell you
    4.The same idiot who stated Valdez was not a big puncher
    5.Monzon faced no more smaller guys coming up than
    Hagler.Golovkin.Graziano ,Lamotta and several other respected middleweight champions the difference being , [with Napoles being the sole exception,]those challenger went on to impressive wins after being beaten by him .
    Bogs &Mundine for example went up to lhvy .
    Valdez won the title after Monzon retired.
    Griffith beat Tiger.
    Briscoe fought Valdez for the vacant title
    Monzon was a guy past his best in many cases still defending his title against younger men and he held the title without a break for 7 years.
    He was giving age away in nearly all of his important fights.
    And believe me ,because I was around watching those defences.Valdez ,Briscoe,etc were very fine fighters And Griffith was the number 1 contender when Monzon beat him,twice. Jones best win at160lbs is a Hopkins who hadn't one single signature win on his resume at that stage of his career.
    Monzon was not aesthetically pleasing to watch,but he was extraordinarily effective and he controlled nearly every fighter he faced before he started to age. He beat all styles, and he did it when he himself was past prime.
     


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