Carlos Monzon 1972 vs Vito Antuofermo, 1979, 160 lbs. 15 Rounds.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Richard M Murrieta, Jun 30, 2020.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Valdez has but a 69" reach and floored Monzon losing a close fight.
    Griffith was 35 for Monzon and stood 5'7" 1/2 inches tall
    Briscoe who had a lot of losses on his resume and surprise was just 5'8" tall drew with Monzon.

    These are probably his best wins ( With the declining Benvenuti ). All three were compare in size Antuofermo, and probably were not better middles than he was, if they were its by a shade.

    Monzon who was not fast or powerful was a grinder type and fought many of the same " types " , ie smaller and shorter men moving up in class, most of whom did not have power aside from Valdez who gave Monzon two tough fights. I'm not saying Monzon lacked skills he had a fine jab and right hand, its just there is no wow factor to him.

    Did Monzon ever fight some fast like Roy Jones, taller like Hopkins, powerful like GGG, or slick like James Toney? No one close to that. Yet these shorter men with very limited reach gave him gave him some tough fights. The likely truth is natural middles who were taller and longer would give him even more trouble.

    I find Monzon's lack of wins over natural middles to be on the light side. While Hagler beat his share of guys moving up, his opponents were legends. Duran. Hearns. Leonard.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  2. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That was my point, we don't know how those fights went, except Monzon didn't win. I don't find Monzon drawing with two journeymen terribly impressive, even if he did beat them in rematches. And remember, I only mentioned these fights at all in the context of Antuofermo's failure to beat Hope being used against him.

    How many of those 30 bouts were against someone better than Antuofermo?

    I did actually pick Monzon to win. I just take issue with those acting as if Antuofermo has no chance.

    Valdez maybe. The Griffith who lost to Monzon second time around went 9-10-1 over the rest of his career (including a loss to Antuofermo a year later), so no I don't think he was levels above Antuofermo at all.
     
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  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    I made similar points with Machine-Man a while back. Facts can be presented, he's just not one to acknowledge them on a scale to weigh. Had Monzon beaten Vito, even in a close fight, they would hold him in a much higher regard. Your points are solid.
     
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  4. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If you feel the need for an intense focus on the negatives to make a point that really doesn't result in an equivalence between Monzon and Vito, so be it.


    Anything is possible, but I've explained why I think his chances are limited.


    You didn't specify a Griffith of any particular fight, in the post I replied to. You simply included Griffiths in a list of fighters you thought Vito was on a level with. But here, you focus on the second fight and what happened next, in order to maximize the negatives, without giving Monzon or Griffith credit for the first fight or anything Griffith had done in his run up to getting his shot against Monzon.

    Griffith was levels above Vito and far more capable of handing Monzon a loss.
     
  5. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    With all due respect, Carlos Monzon lost to Antonio Augilar, Felipe Cambiero, and Alberto Massi, but he avenged all three defeats, He lost to Massi on Oct 9 1964, then went on a 82 bout winning streak, he defeated Rodrigo Valdes on July 30 1977 in Monte Carlo, Monaco, by unanimous decision, 14th successful title defense, then retired as champion.
     
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  6. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Active Member Full Member

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    I am struggling with this concept ( from the posters who think Vito could beat Monzon, or even hang with him ) on the one hand you have a ATG that by anyone's standard would be in the top 3, no arguments please ! up against a fighter who would not make most peoples top 20, maybe even top 30 yes ? Surely its madness to follow this line of thought, because if we do, then Jack Sharkey would have shout on beating a prime Ali. Like I have said before, when is comes to Monzon ( or Hagler/Greb/SRR ) really not worth pitching lesser fighters against them. IMO. Respect to all views.
     
  7. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Remember that Vito Antuofermo defeated a very overrated Hugo Corro by a split decision in Monte Carlo, Monaco, still have my local newsparer with the scores, Judge Wally Thom gave it to Corro, while the other two gave it to Vito. Hugo won it from a beaten up Rodrigo Valdes that was beat up by Monzon, not once but twice. Valdes looked terrible in winning the vacant World Middleweight Title by beating Bennie Briscoe on Nov 5 1977, in Italy.
     
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  8. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Monzon beat everyone who beat him.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Neither Antuofermo or Minter for that matter make my top 25 at 160lbs.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How far did he go in the returns with Hagler and Minter?
    Given that Monzon is ,the better boxer, the better puncher, and that Antuofermo leaked blood worse then Wepner , how exactly would Vito win this ,or even take many rounds?
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    When I was born Joe Louis was the champ,you silly little man.
    Now take a look at other posters opinions of Antuofermo who beat a very moderate champion ,who would not rank in the first 30 all time and whose best result is a draw with a future atg who had a bad night.A boxer who couldnt beat Minter who again, wasn't in the top 25 middles of all time.A boxer whose name wins are over old men.
    Monzon is a top 4 ATG middle.
    Antuofermo isn't in the top 40!
     
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Mike,

    Beat him? Not likely. Hang with him? Absolutely.

    Vito Antuofermo in 1979 is pretty much even with Griffith ( Who Monzon fought past his best when Griffith was 35 ) and Briscoe who had a lot of losses on his resume. So I why not?

    Monzon himself was not the type to finish his best opponents quickly. He drew too many times and lost to guys who shouldn't have all of which I'd pick Vito Antuofermo to beat.

    If I were to say who would you pick between Tom Betha ( a journeyman ), and Monzon barring the web, I betcha most would take Monzon via TKO! Yet the fight happened an it was a split decision! The fight took place in Buenos Aires. Might there have been some home cookin'?

    My point is you don't have to be great to hang with Monzon. He doesn't have one punch power or fast hands.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
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  13. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've found the program! price £1
    Wembley Arena June 28th 1980 Double top of the bill

    Minter v Antuofermo sponsored by Daf Trucks
    For the middleweight title of the world 15rds
    Referee Octavio Meyran Mexico
    Judges Kurt Halbach, Max Strangfeld Denmark.
    My score card is as follows
    rd1 10 -8 Minter, rd2 10-7 Minter,rd3 10-9 Minter,rd 4 10-9 Minter,
    rd6 10-7 Minter rd,7 10 -7 Minter, rd8 10 -9 Minter.
    Antuofermo retired. Minter winner.

    Magri v Camputaro
    For the Flyweight title of Europe.12rds
    Ref Jan Deswert Belgium ,
    Judges Kurt Halbach Germany ,Karel Klijnott Holland.



    rd110-7 Magri , rd2 10-8Magri , rd3 rsf Magri winner
    Also on the bill;
    Johnny Owen v John Feeney 15rds
    Bantamweight Championship of Gt Britain & Commonwealth
    Cornelius Boza Edwards v Ron Green USA 8rds
    Referee Harry Gibbs
    Jimmy Flint v Doug Hill8rds
    Southern Area Featherweight champ Flint v Midland Area Champ Hill.
    Referee Dave Parris

    Winston Spencer v Willie Booth
    Lightweight Contest 8rds.
    Referee Dave Parris
    Eddie Copeland v Barry Price
    Lightweight Contest 8rds.
    Referee Dave Parris



    Won't allow me to post here as its the wrong size ,so I've put it as my avatar.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  14. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Active Member Full Member

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    You make some interesting and valid points. I have taken note.
     
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  15. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Last loss was Oct 9 1964, went on a 82 bout winning streak, then retired as champion.
     
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