Carlos Monzon. An examination of his resume reveals

I just kind of shake my head at the whole idea of this thread. I don't like Monzon either, but any serious student of history needs to be able to see past personal dislikes and just watch the fights with an un-jaded eye. Otherwise you come off sounding like redrooster.

Any middleweight with the possible exception of Greb is going to have questions regarding their middleweight opposition...........Hagler's division was weak, Robinson lost his title a bunch of times, Hopkins had no toughies to fight.......the point is, not many middleweights would live up to the level of scrutiny being shown by the OP here, but only Monzon is subject to being under the microscope.

And the argument that Griffith and Valdez weren't true middleweights is just silly. Holds no water whatsoever. Was **** Tiger not a real middleweight? Ask HIM about Griffith. How about Briscoe? No middleweight there? Ask HIM about Valdez. You can skew any argument to serve any agenda, but some are just bigger reaches than others.

 

:deal

 

So where do you put Valdéz...outside 75?

 

I'm not sure I've ever mapped out a top 75 to see where he places, but I'd wager somewhere in there.

You say Monzón never beat anyone in Mac's top 50, however, and that's just false. Maybe you missed that he placed Benvenuti and Griffith at #30 and #29 respectively?

 

Monzon, by my reckoning has faced 3 men in the top 100 atg list.

Napoles, Griffith and Benvenuti. His record vs these men is 5-0 with 4 wins coming by way of stoppage.

He had one great MW rival during his career, Valdez, his record there is 2-0 with both wins on points.

Out of everyone he beat Griffith and Benvenuti were previous MW champions and Briscoe and Valdes fought to fill his vacancy.

I say he's beaten a top 15 MW and 2 top 15 WW fighters. I don't know where I rank Valdes at MW but I can't picture him being outside my top 20 but that's conjecture without any real thought count into it.

Now if that is a resume you wish to discredit I'm gonna put it out there and say Greb aside, you can discredit any MW resume in history.

For my money Monzon is my number 4 MW and number 23 ATG. Outside the ring he was despicable, inside the ring he was nothing short of legendary.

 

Season's Greetings Mendoza, hope all's well there.......

While I have great respect for McGrain and his way of thinking about these things, I also know that his list is one of many, and almost by definition everyone's list is going to be different. And anyway, I am not a list-maker myself and therefore can't really say with any confidence that Emile Griffith shouldn't be on a list of top-50 middles. Nor, it should be noted, can I say with any confidence that I would feel comfortable saying that Marcel Cerdan is just incrementally better so as to deserve a #38 ranking over #40 Mike McCallum. Not saying I would argue against it, mind you, just that such things seem so arbitrary to me and completely impossible to prove, so it begs the question of just how much stock one should really put in these lists. Certainly nothing one should bet the house on, let's put it that way.

I also think that Benvenuti, Griffith, and Valdez are real nice scalps for any middleweight to claim, and would be pointed out rather favorably by most.

What exactly is the aim of this diatribe against Monzon? To educate the masses to the idea that instead of a number one or two ranking all-time at 160, number four or five is more appropriate? What does that even mean? Seven years' reign and fourteen defenses count for nothing at all, then? Really?

What about Hopkins and Hagler? Where would you rank them? They would seem to be in the same boat as Monzon (moreso, really), yet you're only holding Monzon's feet to the fire here. And what great middleweight HAS a bunch of these top-50 on McGrain's list on their ledger? Not too many.

 

Monzon would Knock out Hagler, Robinson, and greb all in one night with a smoke in one hand.

 

This should be in a museum with a sign over it reading "Logic Failure"...

 

Yet two of those three were reigning champions when Monzon took them out. Couldn't have been too far past it.