Carlos Monzon - Defensive Skills of the Legend

Duran would go into survival mode which he sort of did at times vs Hagler. I would not be surprised if he went into the late rounds or even heard the final bell but he'd have to be fighting quite a negative fight and would be well outpointed. He was near 50 vs Joppy.

 

Duran would of fought Monzon if the money and timing was right. When Monzon retired Duran was still a lightweight. So to say Duran wouldn't have dreamed of fighting Monzon is arbitrarily wrong. And to try try to insinuate Duran was somehow Afraid of Monzon , but not Hagler, is way wrong. And a overestimation of how good Monzon actually was based on the fighters he fought and how he looked fighting them. Monzon, along with Mayweather jr. Are the two most overrated fighters in history in my opnion.

 

I do not agree with you … How is not making your opponent miss a lot not great defense? Defense can be slipping, footwork, range, shoulder roll, parrying, etc, etc, etc, and yes most definitely the lean back and fighting off the back foot, he did this extremely well.. Why not? Making your opponent miss and countering clean … How can that not be great defense? Not only did Monzon do this well, he slipped punches often and countered with clean uppercuts to the body catching his opponent still coming forward with momentum adding to the damage of the shot .. Most did not have sustained success against Monzon, he was able to figure guys out way more than the other way around, and I see his defense playing a big part in this … And figuring out the range plays a part in defense as well, imo… Here's where I need to be in order to land and not get hit … Anyway, that's the way I see it

 

Yes, I think by some describing Monzon as just a fighting behind the jab, right cross fighter is selling his ability way to short. His uppercuts we were discussing were so integral to his success. He used it in so many different ways as a counter, as a lead to the head and body, threw it from different angles, made his opponents mindful of it... And I agree with you, his defense was masterful ..the step back, the lean back, him going into fighting off the backfoot mode, even his rolling... I like this footage here where you can really appreciate his defense at 8:15 … and the effectiveness of his various uppercuts at 5:25 … for those who haven't seen it

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Monzon's footwork is good but his hands are too slow and didnt have the snap in his jab that Hagler had - the kind that took the life out of opponents and would take from Monzon. expect a moderate pace with Marvin slightly ahead until Monzon's legs quivering by round six and red welts on his ribs

no "figuring out process" here; just jab to the head and hook to the body. just like the youtube video. a handful of shots to the head later, and Monzon crumples to the canvas, prey to powers that know no equal

 

his own fans dont understand his style. He's a finesse fighter. offensively, he's not like Hearns who can unload a torrent of blows in a flash. Monzon would throw a jab here, a right hand there, and move out. most opponents went into the late rounds with the exception of Tom Bogs and a badly worn Napoles

Duran with his ability to slip punches, would likely last the full distance but because of his physical disadvantages, come off second best from long range

 

You do realize that I could make a compilation Rahman, using all his fights, and show him leaning away from punches and ducking others over and over. This happens ROUTINELY in professional boxing, at every level. You're giving a wow factor, to a basic defensive move (lean back) that we see all the time in professional boxing, even some of the worst HW's in history have clips of them leaning back away from punches. There are level to this, and Monzon's defense wasn't elite.

What's worse about the lean back, and why I say there are levels to this is quite simple. Do you think it's harder to evade punches in the pocket and close range than when your already at range, a range you're controlling? We all know it's the former. We also know that Monzon held physical advantages over almost all of his foes, especially reach and height. We also know Monzon was a master of range, and not an inside fighter. So if he's already at a range more advantageous to him (not his foe who is slightly out of range thanks to Monzon advantage in reach and height), and his foe tries to close the range and fire shots, are those shots easier to lean back from when you're already starting out of their range? Of course that makes a difference. If he didn't have the physical advantages and reach, and did that, it would be more impressive. Let me put it this way, is it harder to do what Whitaker did defensively against Hoya (out of his prime, against a prime Hoya who held all the physical advantages) or what Monzon did for his entire career against the foes he fought? The thing I'm more impressed with was the countering he was doing.. which showed his range control (here we are again), his reflexes, timing and feel for his foe. That impressed me more than leaning back while already almost out of range.

 

Monzon didn't fight that way.. Just because he wasn't an in the pocket fighter who would slip, slip and counter and stay in the pocket for the majority of the fight and do this, does not mean a fighter is not capable of having good defense. I know Monzon didn't fight like Brian Mitchell for example.. To me, the concept of defense is to avoid being hit and land more of your punches then your opponent is on you.. Given your fighting style and the make up of your body, you use what works for you. And if you avoid that punch with a slip in the pocket or a lean back from the outside, whether you think it is more or less difficult, looks good or not, it accomplished the exact same thing... you are not getting hit which is defense to me.

 

As Arte Johnson once said:

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Such a great post RC...as you know 2 of my favorite fighters here

 

All in the man. Some guys didn't get it done as clever or pleasing to the eye of a Benitez or Toney but he got it done his way it's what worked for him. Small suttle movements supreme ring generalship and judging distance to a T. It's what worked for him and it worked beautifully.

 

You're right RC... I left out all Monzon's redeeming qualities outside the ring. Monzon truly was a stand up guy outside the ring, how could I forget to mention it....