Carlos Monzon dropped 3 times and nearly stopped by Felipe Cambeiro

I think Conteh was as good a boxer as Monzon, with a more fluent style, a solid hitter with faster hands and naturally bigger.

Cotto20; no, I do not think Monzon would've beaten him in the mid 70's when that fight was first mooted.

I think, like Hagler (regardless of the few inches he had on him in height) Monzon's level was Middleweight.

 

Foster would've sparked him IMO. Again, no disgrace in that.

 

But why would their level be middleweight, when other middleweights who are not considered as good as Hagler or Monzon have fought light heavys and beaten them. Even in recent times the likes of Hopkins, Calzaghe, Jones Jr and Toney have moved from middle to light heavy without too much trouble. Even say Danny Green, has done it. I think there is no doubt that Monzon and Hagler would have done it. I think both would beat Foster quite comfortably, but then again, i dont rate Foster as highly as most seem to.

 

atsch

Due to their dimensions. For ****ssake do you disagree just for the fun of it or not bother to read my posts????

So if Hagler went up to Light-Heavy in the early 80's, you think he'd have beaten Spinks? He was a 5'8 Middle, and didn't have the shape of say, Dwight Qawi, who made a 5'6 light-heavy look feasible.

Again, my post was in NO POINT WHATSOEVER referring to the class of these fighters, only due to their dimensions and how they would've found Light-Heavy (TWO DIVISIONS ABOVE MIDDLE BY TODAYS STANDARDS) a bit of a stretch.

Regards, Fleaman

By the way, you think Monzon and Hagler would beat Foster quite comfortably???? Why, and please refer to styles, similar opposition etc etc etc otherwise your reasoning will not be taken into account. Why do you not rate Foster as highly as others supposedly do (and for good reason)

Not flaming you, just that you are making points you clearly feel strongly about and I'm intrigued to find out why :good

 

Just noticed a few more things;

Calzaghe did NOT move to light-heavy from middle, he moved there from 168. Less of an increase.

James Toney moved up due to getting overweight. Not a decent transition by any means, no one would disagree that he had to make allowances in his style in order to move up and was at his physical peak at 160. I personally think he has become a 'better' fighter since but that is not the argument.

Jones Jr managed to keep his reflexes all the way up to heavyweight, but this is due to his style. Could Hagler have outboxed someone that was naturally bigger with a longer reach like Spinks for instance, who was no doubt more durable at Light-Heavy than Hearns was at 160. Or be able to slug it out with a pinpoint power puncher like Spinks?

Would Monzon be able to maintain a rhythm against Foster, who had a fantastic jab and could keep range very well. Would his chin be able to take the bombs Foster would undoubtedly land? Would Foster be affected by Monzon's accumulative digs when Monzon was no Jackson at 160, let alone at light-heavy?

There are a lot of variables that I don't think A)you've taken into account B)understand enough to take into account.

Discuss.

 

I dont think he would have beaten Michael Spinks. But i dont think he would have been without some form of chance. I certainly give him a better chance of beating spinks (whether he is a middleweight or not) than i would give (for example) Antwon Echols, simply because of the class factor.

It is a fair point. I just dont agree with it because of the class factor. I guess the difference is that while i am not saying size and weight is not important, i do not think it is the be all and all for modern fighters just because modern rules do not pit fighters of different weights against each other. I am more than confident that middleweight Marvin Hagler beats many, many light heavyweights. In fact i am certain of it.

I will answer this a bit later, but in short, as i said I dont rate Bob Foster anywhere near as highly as most people do.

 

Could Monzon beat Foster - not IMO - and yes it's about size and power.

 

1. WTF?!?!??!?

2. Why? And whom?

3. Once you've had a chance to take a look at Boxrec you mean?

 

bump

 

he probably sees the bell with conteh, but foster would knock monzon out

 

Struggled? A flash knockdown then a relatively easy win. Monzon never seriously wanted the Conteh match it was as simple as that, it was John that was doing all the shouting to the press. Monzon fudged the Mundine fight long enough, so why would he take on an excellent champion who'd just convincingly beaten his bigger, stronger countryman?

 

A bit of ****ing scouse unity, that's what i'm talking about. On a serious note though, Conteh is rated so high on this forum for ability, and by many posters from the other side of the Atlantic as well. He'd be very proud if he read this stuff i'm sure. In general, or for the average boxing fan i reckon most would not pick him over the great Carlos Monzon, regardless of size, but here he gets the nod by knowledgeable posters.

I'd likely pick him as well, after all, the man was successful at the top level of a higher weight class.

 

Yes, it's great to see some really good posters realise how good he was. I always thought it was just a British thing, because he was always very highly rated over here. A really talented fighter, one of our all-time best, just couldn't keep his dick in his pants. :yep