Carlos Monzon (prime) vs Roy Jones Jr (prime)

Where are you getting this information from?

There were more registered professional boxers in the state of New York in the 1950's than there are now in the whole of the US, more coaches with a better schooling in the sport, massive mainstream media coverage of the sport, less competition from other sports, especially in terms of monetary incentive. The overall depth of competition is now MUCH LOWER than it has been at many times in the past. People now marvel at the cute skills of guys like Toney and Mayweather, when at one time those sort of subtleties were just EXPECTED of any decent pro.

Somebody like Roy jones Jnr is a freak of nature who could have occured at any time in history, his success has nothing to do with 'modern nutrition' or the like.

 

atsch

*puts DanePugilist on ignore*

 

We could argue this all day, and i've had this disciussion with many Roy Jones lovers. (Its the Ray Mancini syndrome) Its my feeling that the key to boxing greatness lies in who you have fought. Very simply look at Jones record, and name me all the fighters he fought (at any weight) that you would put in an all time top ten list? Hopkins maybe. Who else? In fact tell me the ones you would put in a top 20 list? Its easy to look great fighting average guys. Its not Jones fault that he is in an era of average guys, but he is.

 

I think your freudian slip hints at the true reason he [sic] dominated women's tennis

 

There's actually very little that fighters of today (in any weight class) are capable of doing that fighters of yesteryear couldn't. Many fights today look like sparring sessions, fighters back then actually fought. What would a fighter of today who's used to those sparring sessions do if they were in with an opponent who came to fight and had the tools to take advantage of whatever weaknesses they had. If SRR was fighting today and had entered the welterweight division at about the time Mayweather fought Sharmba Mitchell, he would have cleaned out the division by now.

 

Monzon would beat Jones. I saw them both fight live. Monzon had great timing which would nullify Jones' speed. Power would also be a significant advantage for Monzon. Monzon refused to lose. Monzon the great middle ever. Jones just did not fight the same level of competition.

 

Agree with the above ^^^.

At 160 I simply can not see anyone in history beating the Carlos who fought Valdez the second time, Griffith etc etc

 

He beats them all. Roy would give him the most problems and over 12 rounds he might outpoint Monzon, but over 15 I think Monzon times a perfect right hand set up by maybe the best Jab in Middleweight history. Roy gets up at 7 but is on ***** street, Monzon capitalizes and the ref comes in to stop it.

Monzon TKO Jones 12-14

Monzon UD Hopkins

Monzon UD Calzaghe

Monzon TKO Kessler 10

 

Sweet Pea, your posts throughout this thread are excellent.

Regarding this one, I remember reading in Ring Magazine Monzon stating that in training for a title defense he ran 45 minutes per day and worked primarily on his hand placement. In the same article he ridiculed the gym war sparring approach used by fighters like Bennie Briscoe and other Philadelphia middle weight in the seventies.

 

Monzon was better conditioned than any champion today. He consistently fought 15 rounds without getting tired. See his fights with Briscoe and Rodrigo Valdes as examples. Most of todays champions are winded after 7 rounds. So much for todays training methods.

 

Okay, then it's no idea to address your ramblings, nor post this... oh wait.

 

I can only imagine if he trained like Hopkins, he would have never lost during his championship reign....oh wait he never did. 2nd Greatest middleweight of all time IMO behind Greb. It would have been scary if he was committed in the gym.

 

How would he become tired, when Valdes almost don't throw anything? And Monzon is literally walking around the ring.

 

The way he was however is one of the reasons why he's my #1 fighter. I actually find it more appealing about him that he was this way yet still one of the GOATs.

 

What are you talking about??!! Valdez threw loads of punches in both his fights with Monzon. Valdez was aggressive and very active in all his fights. Have you seen the Monzon - Valdez fights? You would not be making such an uninformed statement if you had.

Please learn more about this sport before you debate the merits of an ATG like Monzon.

Also, see Monzon's title winning effort against Nino Benevenuti. A fast paced fight. Monzon looks completely fresh when he KO's Benvenuti in the 12th.