Carlos Monzon (Ripped by Sports Illustrated)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Senor Pepe', Jun 18, 2012.


  1. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    Chill out on the abbreviations... I had to really think about that.
     
  2. gumbo2176

    gumbo2176 Active Member Full Member

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    Well, for the locals, he was considered pretty good. New Orleans is a town rich in boxing history and before Tony came along, there were a handful of guys on the local scene that did pretty fair that were boxing in the 60's and early 70's in Percy Pugh and Jerry Pellegrini. They never quite reached the national level or world ranked like Tony did, but they were a pretty good draw any time they fought in New Orleans.

    For him to reach the world championship level exceeded some people's expectations while others figured him for the next world champ from N.O.

    He beat Mike Rossman, lost to Alan Minter and Carlos Monzon by stoppages, so he did see some of the better guys out there at the time. He started so young in the pros. By the time he fought Monzon, he had about 50 fights and he was still only 23 or so. Most guys today don't even see that many fights in their entire career.
     
  3. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Nino Benvenuti vs. Carlos Monzon I

    Some Facts

    * Saturday Night Fight
    * Held at the Palazzo Dello Sport, Rome, Italy
    * Attendance 12,000
    * Live Gate $120,000
    * Nino Benvenuti (Undefeated in '31' bouts in Rome, Italy)
    * Nino a 2-1 Betting favorite
    * First time Carlos Monzon had fought outside of South America
    * Carlos Monzon had novacaine injections in his hands, to ease the constant pain from punching too hard.
    * Carlos Monzon had paper cups thrown at him in the ring, for his rough-house tactics he put on Nino.
    * The left hooks to the body by Carlos, hurt Nino early in the fight.
    * Nino did make a go at it in Rounds 5 and 6, to stem the tide just a bit.
    * Nino, to deflect Carlos and his rough-style, threw a few elbows himself.
    * The Italian Press, on Nino's offense, said it was like 'shooting pea's at a tank.'
     
  4. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :lol: :lol: I did indeed read the origin of your post,Frankie. I was just stoking up a bit of banter. ;)

    The main comparisson between Ali and Monzon was that they were two of the greatest fighters of all time. And they were both two of the top three of the seventies. I have Ali third behind Monzon and Roberto Duran for that decade,but I can't make up my mind who's number one out of Monzon and Duran.
     
  5. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    The basic 1-2 methodical style and dominance is quite uninspiring but successful for both of them. Both are great but not in the upper echelons of greatness for me.

    I think Monzon gets allot of credit for fighting past prime greats and smaller greats
     
  6. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Barring Duran I completely agree with this, although Duran would have a case to be his best opponent. The level Monzon achieved is vastly exaggerated by his fans
     
  7. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think it can be said that Monzon was greater than the sum of his parts.
    I also don't find him particularly impressive on film, in fact at times he looks sloppy and slow, but one can't deny his success.
    That really is the clincher for me.
     
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    You sound like a Mayweather fan
     
  9. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Vic_Brasil

    The Oakland Tribune

    Here's one of Carlos Monzon's Argentina bouts

    saturday - July 18, 1970 (4-months before fighting Nino Benvenuti)

    Estadio Luna Park, Buenos Aires, Argentina

    World Middleweight Championship (North American vs. South American) Elimination Bout

    #1 Middleweight - Carlos Monzon 65-3-9 (44 KO's)
    vs.
    #1 Light-Middleweight - Eddie 'Bossman' Pace 33-22-1 (9 KO's)

    In front of 11,000 Argentinian fans, 28 year-old Carlos Monzon, the #1 Ranked Middleweight,
    wins a lack-lustre 10-Round decision over 32 year-old veteran American #1 Ranked Light-Middleweight
    Eddie Pace, for the North American vs. South American Middleweight Elimination Championship.

    The winner, Carlos Monzon, is now in line for a Title shot versus World Champion, Nino Benvenuti of Italy.

    The 6' 1" Monzon, showed nothing more than left jabs, and constant clutching
    in controlling this fight with the light-punching California-based boxer. Monzon
    used his long arms like 'tentacles', in wrapping up the 5' 9" Pace, every time he
    got in close in an attempt to work the body.

    The durable American, became frustrated in his attempt to land on the tall and
    awkward Top-ranked Middleweight, and Pace resorted to bull-rush advances in the
    later rounds. Monzon, using his left arm like a matador redirecting an on rushing bull,
    would guide the smaller Pace to his side, and then smother him with both arms while
    landing short chopping punches to the American's upper body.

    Ring observers scored it for the local Argentinian, 7-2-1 in rounds.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Eddie Pace, a 32 year-old American, based out of California. A 5' 9" boxer/counter-puncher,
    who was a pretty good inside fighter. Had a good chin, was durable, and had incredible stamina.
    He had no power, and his offense was usually a solid left jab followed by two-fisted inside punching,
    but he had a busy non-stop attack.

    Eddie Pace, campaigned as a 147 lb. Welterweight in the middle-1960's. He did move
    up to Light-Middleweight in 1969 and then Middleweight in 1970.

    Eddie 'Bossman' Pace in 1970

    Was ranked as the #1 Light-Middleweight (154 lbs.), when entering the ring versus Carlos Monzon.

    Eddie 'Bossman' Pace had scored a major 'upset' in January 1970, when he won by 'disqualification' {W Disq. 8}
    over the World Light-Middleweight Champion and #1 Ring Magazine Middleweight, Freddie Little, in a bout held in
    Rome, Italy.

    Eddie, also fought, and lost a 'close' 12-Round Decision to veteran and former World Light-Middleweight
    Champion Denny Moyer in February 1970, for the 'vacant' NABF Middleweight Championship.

    Eddie had also defeated the 'highly regarded' and #6 World-Rated Middleweight, Brazilian, Juarez De Lima
    by 10-Round Decision in April 1970.

    Eddie 'Bossman' Pace
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  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    ...
     
  11. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    As usual,very informative. Thanks Pepe.
     
  12. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The same could be said for Hagler.
     
  13. A.J.

    A.J. Member Full Member

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    As usual from Fists of Fury, a smart and also diplomatic post.

    Someone else earlier mentioned Monzon's record and the fact that it alone says it all. Not to me. I look at his competition and I see mediocrity from top to bottom. Take out Valdes and the over-rated Benvenuti, and it's poor.

    Then I look at the fighter (Monzon) and determine if I can see extraordinary skills or attributes, irrespective of who the opponent is. I don't.

    If we go only by Carlos's record, then what some us might come up with is only a Floyd Mayweather, Jr.-- which isn't saying much, as far as I am concerned. Actually, Floyd has accomplished quite a bit more, and against much better fighters (who still are only good and not great).

    I need more than just a record if I'm going to call a fighter a "master" or "the best", and Monzon seems here, as elsewhere, to be deemed somewhere in between the two.

    Every time I view one of his fights, borefests all, I am itching to see how he'd do against a live body. Meaning a top-tier guy (not just at that time, when the division was terrible), and who is in his own prime.

    Not really disagreeing with you, F of F, it's more with the previous posts that refer to Monzon's being the best fighter of the '70s with Duran . . . based on Duran's basically weak competition then, Buchanan and DeJesus aside, how Ali isn't consensus #1 for the 1970s is beyond me. (Frazier and Norton 3x each, Foreman, Quarry 2x, Bonavena, Shavers, Lyle, both Fosters, Bugner 2x . . . ****, Duran and Monzon together didn't face a third as many top opponents.)
     
  14. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    A.J.

    Does make a good point,,,,,,,

    Loading up on Argentinian (Welterweights, Light-Middleweights and Middleweights)
    if anything, had to give Carlos Monzon 'super confidence' and a feeling of invincibilty.

    The Top Argentinian Middleweights - Jorge Fernandez, Antonio Aguilar and Carlos Salinas
    that Carlos fought, were all quality boxers, but not considered Top 20 material.

    And, the only American Middleweights that Carlos took on, before facing Nino Benvenuti
    were Bennie Briscoe (May 1967) and Tom 'The Bomb' Bethea (August 1969).

    In both bouts, Carlos was far from 'dominating' or 'impressive'.

    Remember, Carlos was a 2-1 Underdog when facing the Champion Nino Benvenuti in Rome, Italy in 1970,
    and the only thing that was worth mentioning, was that he was both the Argentinian and South American
    Middleweight Champion.

    Before that bout, nobody outside of Argentina thought Carlos was that good.
    Even Ring Magazine, who had rated Carlos as high as #6 in 1968, had dropped him
    to #10 in 1969, and only had him as the #5 Middleweight before facing Nino.

    In hence, is impressive record accumulated in Argentina (pre-November 1970) was
    really nothing more than a 'nicely packaged box'.

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  15. A.J.

    A.J. Member Full Member

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    Interesting information, Senor Pepe', as usual from you!

    As to Monzon's record, don't ask me what I think of Bethea or perennial contender Briscoe in terms of their respective all-time statures.

    What I would love to see is somebody analyzing who would beat Monzon, and how-- based on the premise that every fighter CAN be beaten. And virtually all HAVE been beaten at least once, usually more.

    But it seems with Monzon, in fantasy fights for example, nobody thinks Carlos can ever lose to another human being. Which is fairly ridiculous on its face. And to me, especially crazy in that he never looked like any world-beater in any fight. Other than winning in way more rounds than it should have taken him, with few exceptions on that score.