Carlos Monzon vs Bernard Hopkins

First point is certainly false, how about defense? footwork? feinting? countering?

Second, well Monzon never fought any big men of the standard of Jones/Calzaghe and Hops was 43 against Joe and many had Hops winning

 

Hopkins is every bit as highly regarded as Monzon on here overall, though the appreciation seems to have died down recently compared to a few years ago, where if you even considered picking monzon or hagler over him you had swathes of posters sweeping in to call you on old-timer bias.

i can live with mystical monzon, or the vast overrating of Hopkins defensive chops, more than i can that blue collar hard done by hagler bull**** that lurked about for years , mind you.

 

Gotta love this.

 

Hopkins said himself he wouldn't beat Monzon. I rest my case.

 

Well that settles it, then.

There was also an article which cropped up on here a while back in which he stated he thought he'd beat Monzon handsomely, I believe.

 

Can you find it?

I have only seen the other one.

 

Monzon UD.

 

I have seen it as well. Can't mind where exactly.

 

Nah. More people hold Monzon in higher regard on here. No question.

 

you bet they do. not saying monzon wasn't great, but the man was defeiantely not unbeatable

 

Jones was controlling the bout with counter-punching and distance, that was my point in this fight. He was countering Hopkins and making him hesitant, also Jones was completly controlling the range (which my point was for this fight).

Calzaghe was out-working him, Hopkins was getting off first with counters as Calzaghe came in, but Calzaghe was following up with flurries and punches.

It would be tactical, and since Monzon is one of the best ring generals ever he has to be favoured.

Was abit over happy there wasnt I?

I think Monzon was better at controlling the distance and pace and this was much of his defence, but he has a very underrated actual defensive skills like slipping and blocking IMO. Footwork is even IMO. Feinting and countering probably Hopkins but it is close.

Jones and Calzaghe were the same size as Hopkins when they fought.

 

1. Not very effective, I scored it to Hopkins,but I thought they both lost, won't be staying up till 4am if theres a rematch :yep

2. Hopkins is a mighty impressive general himself

3. Monzon was very good at controling the distance and controling his opponent, but so was Hopkins, his footwork in my view is better because hes always setting up his opponent with it, whether to land the lead right against a southy, to set up his first shot, or to keep range, or to avoid a certain shot, ie Titos left hook

4. Yes BUT Monzon didn't face a man his size who was also elite and in their prime, Hopkins did, thats the difference. Tarver was a fair site bigger to

 

ut he did controll the pace and made Hopkins struggle, did he not?

He is, but he is up against arguably the best ring general around. Definitly one of the most effective fighters ever.

Again, point 2.

Griffith was elite, Benvenuti was elite ..........

 

What's the difference between an "effective" fighter and a "good" fighter?

That makes no sense. If I wait on an opponent looking to counter his shots and he happens not to throw anything, that's not me controlling the pace; it's him being cautious. Hopkins was the one controlling the pace vs. Jones. When Hopkins attacked, he forced Jones to the ropes and they fought inside. When Hopkins stood off, Jones stood off.

They were hesitant from the opening. That's not something Monzon would do anyway, so it's not really relevant for this match-up.

Pretty much every time Hopkins pushed forward Jones got trapped on the ropes.

You can't really "get off first with counters". Hopkins was getting off first, full stop. He was luring Calzaghe in, out-timing him at almost every exchange and then tying him up to limit the action. That's controlling the pace. Like you say, Calzaghe had success by flurrying in the interim between Hopkins throwing and Hopkins tying him up. He probably forced Hopkins to fight at a higher pace by chasing him around, but that's about it (and again Monzon wouldn't be doing that, never).

:zzz

 

1. The speed was too much and pace was too much for a 43yo and Calzaghes 100+ punches per round is more demanding than Monzon's more pedestrian 1. I personally see Calzaghe beating Monzon at 168 or a 164 catch weight prime for prime, so thats a none factor imo

2. Agree to disagree :good Although 1 thing I will say is Hopkins footwork is more intricate

3. Again neither as big as Jones/Calzaghe, Monzon had the size advantage, neither prime either. And with all due respect to Benvenuti/Griffith they aren't at the Superman level