Carlos Monzon Vs Hearns - Is This The Worst, Fight At Middle For Tommy?

Only because King Carlos Monzon spoke no English and was not a mouthy flashy fighter, I cannot blame him for fighting in Argentina and Europe, the taxes are murder here, but I get it. Hearns is best known for getting knocked out, he too fought midgets, Jose Pipino Cuevas and a smaller fatter Roberto Duran.

 

A top post from a guy who knows Hearns, followed his career in great detail probably a lot more than most of us here ... None of us agree on everything but its Always enjoyable to read your 80's knowledge as you have so much to contribute on so many different fighters from the 80's 90's ... I'm right there with you as I too think Hearns' resume is one of the best easily since the late 70s on ..... No matter what he had to do with his weight, he always wanted to fight the best , stay active, and he wanted to knock you out.. he reminds me a lot of Pac actually resume wise ,, another guy who just wanted to fight all comers and was incredibly active , anyway those are probably my 2 favorite resumes post early 70's ,, Haglers as well
happy holidays btw

 

In that clip Monzon didn`t move his head after punching, that`s when Hearns would have tagged him.

 

Hearns P4P was an amazing fighter, what he offered at 160 was power, reach and handspeed.

 

Hearns best performances were at 154 v Duran and Benitez and he didn`t get tagged and when Benitez did land it wa with punches better and quicker than the punches Monzon threw, P4P Benitez was far more skilled than Monzon and had much better head movement.

 

But Hearns failed to win a title at 160 lbs, where Carlos Monzon did against Nino Benvenuti on Nov 7 1970, with that damaging right hand in round 12. Hearns stamina and chin cost him a title at 160 lbs. Hearns too had his share of fighting midgets, Cuevas and Duran.

 

Benitez still found Tommy's chin. But he was a pure-boxer, so it really wasn't his style to go on the attack. Carlos never passed on an opportunity. In fact, that's how he made his bread and butter: hanging out waiting for the perfect opportunity, rather than trying to force it.

Tommy liked to force matter. It would get him clipped here.

Benitez didn't fight anything like Monzon. And like Ray, he was kept at the end of Tommy's jab because his game was about keeping distance. Most opponents at 147 and 154 simply lacked the range to negate their out-boxing. Hearns clearly had the solution.

Again, Monzon isn't dependent on constantly out maneuvering and feints like Leonard and Benitez. The idea that Tommy's viper jab will piece Carlos up and then pin him down for the chopping right hand just doesn't jive with the footage of Carlos. He resets and hits when his opponent tries to respond. Tommy will be falling into those traps all night.

You also don't seem to grasp how Hearns set up his KOs. Sure, he had power that carried him all the way to Cw (against scrubs), but his career really levelled off after Jr. Mw. He had an epic war with Hagler (which he lost in three rounds). And, in the eyes of many, he avenged his loss to Leonard at Super Middleweight. But his career highs had already come and went. That's because he needed to exploit his size against shorter opponents. And while it's true he "Boxed" well at range, his success came from closing the distance on smaller, slower men like Cuevas and Duran.

Unlike you, I am actually giving Tommy credit. You're the one writing him off. You think he'll be foolish to rush in on Monzon, where he'll get murked. I am saying Tommy is smart enough to keep it at range. Yes, he has the faster jab. But it's also less versatile and predictable than Carlos'.

When is the last time you saw the Barkley fights?

 

Face it, you just detest Carlos Monzon, what's wrong? He does not speak your language? A fighter fights what is put in front of him. He does not have to call out fighters, it is boxing, not the WWE. Does every fighter have to be mouthy and flashy to be great? Carlos got the job done in the ring, plain and simple. I was not impressed with Hearns, he got hit entirely too much, so he ended up sprawled on the canvas. Carlos retired with his belt, Nov 7 1970 until he retired on August 29 1977, he did not end up talking like he was punch drunk like poor Tommy.

 

Speed does not mean squat, Carlos threw great combos, he never got stopped by a 147 lb fighter like Hearns did.

 

Yup. he didn't get hit in fights against SMALLER men.

Yup. Benitez tagged him, but Benitez couldn't pop a grape. And unlike Whitaker, he didn't even try to.

Benitez is a better boxer than Carlos like Hopkins and Toney were better boxers than Roy Jones.

Head-movement matters a lot but it's also been imagined to be a game-changer that it isn't. Feinting matters when it works. Anderson Silva had better head-movement than Luke Rockhold and Yoel Romero, ask Chris Weidman how much that mattered.

Ali had better headmovement than Quarry, how'd their respective fights with Shavers turn out?

Guys like Carlos and Golovkin don't have great head-movement because they don't need it. It affects balance and rhythm, often adversely. In Kickboxing they even, mistakenly, used to teach against it because they said it made us sloppy. Thankfully, kickboxing has come a long way, but instructors were at least recognizing the inherent risk of having fighters do too much.

Fury's defense is largely dependent on his size and feinting. Not even Locche-style headmovement, just feinting. But look how he's abandoned so much of that since taking up residence at Kronk Gym.

Where did Bentiez's head-movement get him in life? I don't doubt that Carlos might have suffered from severe CTE, too, but he also seems to simply have been crazy. He was pretty lucid up until the time of his death. Lack of great head-movement was no hinderance to Carlos' legendary career. Wilfredo's was legendary for how much of a disappointment it was.

Tommy's not going to be able to control range against Monzon and he knows Monzon has the far superior chin. He'll be hamstrung from the opening bell.

 

I think people have bought into the importance of speed because of the amateurs. Also, Boxing has hit rough patches in the past where the few who rose to the top did so based on speed.

Speed is a problem for anyone to contend with, and even the fastest guys wish they had more of it. But it's one of the easier skills to mitigate against.

Tommy's hand-speed would diminish once he started missed and getting his jab picked off. He'd have less confidence in pumping it out there, and his lack of variety would hurt him even more.

Hearns was a lot faster than Hagler, and what did that mean for him?

Monzon was a good bit better than Hagler, and larger.

 

Hearns did indeed win a title at 160 on the 29th October 1987 at the Hilton against Roldan 65-3-2 who had given Hagler a decent little scrap.

 

Excellent post

 

Yes...midgets who were older than Hearns.

 

Hearns isn't beating Monzon.