Carlos Ortiz vs Julio Cesar Chavez

I've seen plenty of fights(such as Ramirez) where Chavez wasn't directly pressing the action, but rather opting to box and get in close quarters in the middle of the ring. Against someone like Ortiz who has his own size, power, and strength for Chavez to contend with, it will be a problem simply grinding him down and forcing him against the ropes. While I believe Chavez may have been better on the inside, he would have problems getting him in a tight spot such as against the ropes due to Ortiz's strength and ring generalship.

I think Ortiz outboxes him on the outside, and has enough size, strength, and skill on the inside to cope, but for the most part, the skill, power, and ring generalship to keep the fight in the middle of the ring for the greater part of the fight. Ortiz by close UD.

 

The post above is an old one of mine I copied and pasted from a similar thread a few months back. That's a scenario for Ortiz.

Nowadays, it makes sense, but I'm not 100% sure I stand by it. Chavez at his best was not one to box casually(and Ramirez was a good friend of his) for long portions, and by Chavez at his best I mean the Chavez of the Rosario fight. I could see that Chavez keeping the pressure on to get the better of the fight, being as it would stay more at his pace.

Although, what I've said before still stands, when faced with power, or someone capable of coping with him on the inside or in terms of strength, Chavez has often backed out of a brawl to instead opt to box with the opponent(such as against LaPorte).

Then again, LaPorte was a brawler, and couldn't outbox Chavez, whereas Ortiz can. So, it's a toss-up for me. Depends on what you like better, my original post, or my new post which states(merely as a hypothetical for Chavez) that Chavez would keep the pressure on, as the best Chavez did, and win the fight on effective aggression.

 

Dude you're just sad now. Carlos Ortiz!? Are you ****ing kidding????

 

He kind of did. Would be a war though Mexican vs Rican.

 

Right here is where you show your intense lack of knowledge of boxing.

Carlos Ortiz beat 6(count em) Hall of Famers, and rates EASILY higher at Lightweight than Chavez does. Chavez had about 4 fights there, beating the likes of Rosario. Ortiz beats HOF'ers like Ismael Laguna, Flash Elorde, Sugar Ramos, Joe Brown, and top 140 pounders like Duilio Loi and Nicolino Locche. That right there is more impressive work than anything on Chavez's resume.

 

I really didn't say much about it because the only fights I have seen were against Ramos'.

 

That isn't the point, the point is you trying to call me out again on being a Chavez hater(a completely unjust claim by the way) because I had a fight between he and another ATG(and one with a better resume) 50/50. What crime is that? Ortiz was a fantastic fighter, just like Chavez.

You're showing your bias for Chavez and/or lack of knowledge about other boxers much more than I'm showing my "hate" for Chavez. You're in the wrong here, I suggest you stop trying to call me out if this is how successful you're going to be continuously.

 

You forgot that he beat most of those guys twice. :good

 

I really have a hard time believing Chavez losing to him or anyone on his resume.

 

I suggest you go see some film of these guys then, because some of them would have a great shot vs. Chavez.

 

I'd favor Chavez over the smaller guys like Ramos and Elorde no question. Laguna is interesting, very slick, skilled boxer, difficult style matchup, but I believe Chavez at his Lightweight best would've outdone him. His pressure style would've been unrelenting against more of the pure, slick boxer type, and Laguna wasn't quite on Whitaker's level. I'd favor Chavez over Joe Brown as well based on accounts(though I've not yet seen substantial footage, so I base this mostly on accounts of Brown and his style), so that's 4 I'd favor him over.

If I had to pick one, I'd probably take Chavez over Locche, due to the fact that the entire fight would be in close, and Chavez would be the more likely to do damage with shots, even though he would have fits trying to land clean shots. Would be interesting, here's one Chavez is capable of losing if he does happen to get tagged consistently with the cleaner shots, because he certainly won't be landing at a high rate.

I'd outright pick him to lose to Loi at 140 in a good fight. A slick, unrelenting pressure fighter. By most accounts, a bit like a young Tyson in his ability to bob and weave under punches, but all the while more of a pure pressure fighter than a puncher. Would have the defense edge, and would be able to hang with Chavez in the trenches. Never once dropped or stopped in over a hundred fights either.

This is what Ortiz beat, some multiple times, and he lost to a few as well(Loi twice, Lagune once, though he beat them all as well).

 

Chavez never fought a guy as good as Ortiz. I include De La Hoya when I say that. Ortiz could box and move as well as hit. Why, by the way would it be a 12 rounder? Ortiz was a proven 15 round fighter, and could box to a deision as well as end it suddenly with power in a late round as well. Think of the professional type beating that Frankie Randall gave Chavez, only a much better fighter like Ortiz doing it to him in his prime. Chavez is lucky he was in a different era than Ortiz, and for that matter a different era than Ken Buchanan, another great that could have beaten him too.