Carlos Takam has a big fight in September

AJ ducked Ortiz and Wilder? Now your just making stuff up.

Wilder - turned down at least career high purses offers including the final DAXN offer of $100 for two fights and offering to double what Wilder got by PBC for him to fight Breazeale.

Ortiz - stated on social media 5hat would step in as Millers replacement. Offer came in and Ortiz team turned it down.

AJ fought light punchers? Wlad Povetkin and Whyte light punchers? Wilder has never been beaten anyone who is hard of puncher like these guys. What does say about Wilder?

Parker, Ruiz and Whyte are top HWs yes. Certainly better re Ord than either Wilder or Ortiz ( hence why Wilder ducked them).

 

Ortiz stepped aside to let AJ fight Wlad on the condition that he would fight AJ in late 2017. But instead of a big punching undefeated southpaw with skills, the likes of Pulev and Takam were targeted instead. Ortiz signed with PBC and fought Wilder for the WBC twice, no doubt on the terms that he had to fight in-house if PBC wished.

Was Hearn offering 50-50 to Wilder? Or was he offering 70-30/60-40, one-way rematch clauses, both fights in Britain etc.? Hearn admitted that they were playing these games. Why? Because they wanted more of the pot for themselves, to increase their chances of victory, the ego victory of being the unquestionable A-side and they thought that Wilder was getting older while AJ was getting better. But they played themselves because AJ then suffered one of if not the most humiliating defeat in boxing history.

41 year old, 17 months inactive, dethroned, winless in 2 years Wlad is the only prolific KO artist AJ faced. Povetkin could punch but his KO ratio is about 60% as an aggressive pressure fighter, same as Whyte's. Whyte's KO record is absolutely dire against his better opponents, only managing to stop Chisora.

Ortiz x2 and Stiverne 1 probably punch harder than Povetkin and Whyte. Fury in the 2nd and 3rd Wilder fights is a bigger KO threat than anyone AJ's ever faced.

Andy Ruiz (who demolished AJ and controversially lost an MD to Parker in New Zealand) recently tried to sign with Triller to fight washed up kickboxer Tyrone Spong and break his contract to fight an officially 43 year old Ortiz with 2 KO defeats. Unlike your assertions this is on public record, making a mockery of your ducking narratives.

 

Wilder turned muuyple career high purses and never attempted to unify and instead fought weak opposition.

Ortiz also turned a career high purse against AJ despite even stated he wanted the fight a few days prior to the offer.

Facts.

 

You did an excellent write up, but I have to say that Ortiz is a bit of a duck, he turned down eliminators vs Hrgovic and Joyce. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he also ducked AJ, he turned down 5 million despite having not anywhere near that.

 

I don't see this as a good matchup at all. DuBois's chief weaknesses seem to be his footwork and that he doesn't use the ring all that well. Takam seems to be content to plant his own feet in the center of the ring and nick rounds by throwing flurries. That's not a gameplan that will expose DuBois's weaknesses. In fact, for a 41 1/2 years-old Takam it seems like more of a suicide mission...

 

They wanted to fight Ortiz when he was officially 41-43 with 2 KO defeats, having not wanted to fight him for years prior to that. 43+ year old Ortiz isn't interested in fighting a nonentity like Hrgovic or relative small fry like Joyce when there is a much more lucrative, winnable and status fight with former unified champ and AJ conqueror Ruiz on the table, who clearly tried to duck an ancient Ortiz to fight a 3 year inactive Tyrone Spong in Mexico.

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Abel Sanchez admitted that he wasn't willing to put his 7-0, 11 years in boxing, 33 year old, de-faco Olympic SHW gold medalist in with a post-Wilder 1, officially 40 year old Ortiz. Again this isn't speculation about contractual arrangements that none of us are privy to, it's public record. If Joyce wasn't ready for that version of Ortiz, it gives us an idea of what other heavyweight contenders thought about the risk-reward of fighting a considerably younger, fresher, unbeaten Ortiz.

If Ortiz or Ortiz's team or PBC had turned down the AJ fight and Ortiz had fought a journeyman in 2019, there might be some truth to the ducking narrative. PBC certainly didn't want AJ doing a better job on Ortiz than Wilder did, or an undefeated Kownacki for that matter, who they were "fattening up" for Wilder. But they were happy to put one of their more lightly regarded heavyweights in with AJ in Andy Ruiz, who had already lost to AJ victim Parker.

Ortiz fought Wilder in 2019, who had KO'd him the previous year. Ortiz knew Wilder 2 was a very dangerous fight, at least as dangerous as AJ, as a 20+ month younger, fresher and unbeaten version of himself had already been knocked down thrice and KO'd for the first time in his career by a less experienced version of Wilder. Is the argument that Ortiz was so terrified of AJ (unlike Martin, Molina etc.) that he was jumping back in with an unbeaten one-punch KO artist long-reigning champion who had already brutally KO'd him, for a fraction of the money? Is the narrative that Ruiz (who recently tried to duck a much older and more worn Ortiz) is braver than Ortiz?

The obvious conclusion based on the evidence is that Ortiz was a dangerous contender who was high risk, low reward, so he was avoided heavily until recently. And even now he's still somewhat feared and avoided. Johnny Nelson said recently that AJ shouldn't fight Ortiz as he's too dangerous, even rival promoter Hearn said in September 2021 that "no one wants to fight Ortiz". Chisora compared Ortiz to a "southpaw Mike Tyson" back in 2016 and referred to him as a "nightmare". Fury also praised Ortiz, saying he was "very good".

 

Wilder was looking for 50-50 and fair contractual terms, which wasn't on the table until he beat Fury. Nobody wanted to unify with Wilder as an AJ unification was far more lucrative, for more status in a UK stadium fight and after AJ had 2/3 belts, for more belts, while Wilder was a more dangerous puncher. Hearn/AJ didn't want the Wilder fight any time soon; they wanted to age Wilder out and let it marinate a la Mayweather-Pacquiao, while closing the experience gap which favoured Wilder.

Ortiz fought Wilder again the same year. It's absurd to accuse someone of ducking when they fight an equal or more dangerous champion opponent, especially one who already KO'd a younger, fresher and unbeaten version of themselves. Then AJ got destroyed by one of PBC's lighter regarded heavyweights (below Kownacki in their pecking order) Andy Ruiz.

AJ's record has aged poorly, while Wilder's has aged well.

Facts.

 

When did Wilder beat Fury ?lol

Wilder was offered over double his career high purse multiple times and Wilder's team turned it down to fight lesser opposition. Fact.

How has Wilder record aged well? Lol There’s half a dozen boxers in the divison with better records than Wilder. AJ in particular has beaten half a dozen guys in Wlad, Povetkin, Whyte, Parker, Ruiz and Pulev who are better than anyone Wilder has beaten.

Ortiz turned down the chance fight AJ (after publically vall for the fight) to fight an easier opportunity with with a poor record in comparison in Wilder. Fact.

 

Wilder didn't beat Fury but 50-50 wasn't on the table until he did (another way of eliminating a primary rival to AJ from the title picture). Fury won instead and Hearn changed his tune regarding splits.

30-70 would be a career fight purse because it was a massive undisputed fight. But 50% is much more than 30% (especially when we're talking about tens or hundreds of millions) and Wilder wanted 50%.

You don't know how to judge a record, which is why you apparently thought that Whyte would beat Fury, rather than landing virtually nothing, losing every round and getting one-punch KO'd in 6.

Judging a record is to a significant degree subjective anyway: how many points does AJ lose for quitting against 25-1 underdog Ruiz? How many points does he lose for being the first SHW champion to lose emphatically to an ex-cruiserweight? How many points does Wilder gain for being the closest to beating Fury and never losing to a lesser opponent than the No.1?

AJ's record has aged poorly because his opponents have gone on to do worse than expected. It was believed that the likes of Whyte, Parker, Pulev and Takam and others were head-and-shoulders above Chisora when AJ beat them. It turns out that they were not, as Chisora has either won or lost controversial SD's against Whyte, Parker and Pulev and KO'd Takam. Ruiz had a war with 40 year old inactive Arreola and tried to duck 43+ Ortiz, Martin and Molina took dives, Breazeale was wiped out in 1 by Wilder and schooled over 12 by Wallin in America and 41 year old inactive Wlad retired.

The only AJ wins that aged well are Povetkin and journeyman-mode Kevin Johnson but the Povetkin win aged well at Whyte (KO'd in 5 in Britain) and Parker's expense (faded Povetkin beat a more mature, experienced Hughie more convincingly than Parker did) and the Kevin win aged well at Pulev and Ruiz's expense.

Wilder's record aged well because all of his title opponents have gone on to do better than expected since he beat them: Morales, Liakhovich and Arreola went on to give Ruiz stern tests over the distance, Stiverne's wins over Arreola aged well and he went 6 with Joyce, Molina KO'd Adamek in Poland, Duhaupas KO'd 22-0 Helenius in Finland in 6 and went 12 rounds with Miller in America, Szpilka beat Wach, Washington's KO2 over Forrest aged well and he went on to KO Helenius in 8, Ortiz KO'd Parker title challenger Cojanu in 2 who went 12 with Parker in NZ, beat Hammer wide and KO'd Martin, while Fury has since beaten 20-0 southpaw Wallin wide and obliterated Ring top 5 Whyte.

An older, more worn, no longer undefeated Ortiz stepped back in with the long-reigning KO artist champion who had already KO'd him, as was surely the agreement with PBC, while PBC's lightly-regarded Ruiz (who recently tried to duck a 43+, 2 KO defeats Ortiz) was allowed to step in with AJ and destroyed him.

 

Would like to see Takam get another shot at the overrated Chisora. He was well ahead in that fight prior to getting caught.

 

Wilder picked Fury as it was cherry pick gone bad - Fury had only fought journeyman on his return and still looked out shape and ring rusty being taken the distance by Pianetta.

You say I don't know how to call because I'd called the Whyte Fury fight wrong (made my money and more back by betting on Bivol and Bakole) but you also predicted Wilder would beat Fury.

Fury himself turned down the offer to fight AJ in the same split that he accepted to fight Wilder in their first fight as he viewed Wilder the easier opponent for less money (similar to Ortiz when he ducked AJ).

AJ opponents In Wlad, Povetkin Parker, Whyte, Ruiz and Pulev all have better record than Ortiz. This can't logically be disputed when comparing Ortiz record of his only notable wins being Jennings and Martin to above mention guys performances.

 

It was a "cherry pick" against a man who was regarded as the 2nd toughest opponent Wilder could fight after AJ and looking back on it Fury was the best Wilder could have fought. It's like saying that Bivol was a cherry pick for Canelo: maybe relative to Beterbiev but not relative to Charlo, Benavidez, Andrade etc.

Fury carried Pianeta; he wanted 10 rounds to shake off the rust against a former sparring partner and to play possum for the Wilder fight. He did just that and many are still fooled years later. Seferi was a glorified exhibition match and Pianeta was a glorified sparring session, Fury had been in training for just over a year when he first fought Wilder. He wouldn't have taken a fight against an undefeated 40-0 KO artist, long-reigning champion unless he believed he was in good shape.

Everyone gets picks wrong (I thought Pulev would school and batter Chisora rather than outbox him in a fairly close, scrappy, subjective fight and lose the decision) but there are degrees of getting a pick wrong. Whyte had done nothing in his career for anyone to believe he had more than an outside chance of beating Fury. And as it happened he didn't land a significant punch to the head, lost every round and got KO'd with one shot. If you backed Whyte based on his "resume" of going life and death twice with Chisora and getting KO'd by a badly faded Povetkin then your analysis of HW records is awful.

Fury also wanted 50-50, which wasn't on the table until he beat Wilder. The AJ fight was bigger financially than the Wilder fight and beating Wilder would help to build the AJ fight massively, along with getting Fury a 50-50 split. So while it was risky to fight Wilder first, the financial rewards were potentially a lot greater that way. Unless AJ got battered and KO'd by some unknown fringe contender who struggled with a washed up Liakhovich and Kevin Johnson over 10...

Again your analysis of records is terrible. Parker went the full 12 with Cojanu in New Zealand, Ortiz KO'd him in 2. Whyte went the 10 round distance with Dave Allen and took a lot of punishment, Ortiz KO'd him in 7. Pulev and Takam went 12 with Tony Thompson in Germany and France respectively and both lost several rounds, Ortiz schooled and KO'd Thompson in 6. Wlad and Joyce went 12 rounds with Jennings and Joyce especially lost several rounds, Ortiz outboxed Jennings and KO'd him in 7. Allen and Jennings had never been stopped prior to fighting Ortiz and neither man has been stopped faster than by Ortiz since. Slick mover Scott won multiple rounds against Chisora in Britain whereas Ortiz pitched a shutout against him over 12, dropping him multiple times.

Therefore it's clear that undefeated southpaw Ortiz was more skilled and a more dangerous puncher than anyone on AJ's record aside from inactive dethroned Wlad and possibly Povetkin.

 

Takam's physically stronger than Chisora with longer arms but his chin and power let him down, whereas Chisora's superior durability and power saved him. Takam put everything into trying to take Chisora out in the first half but Chisora weathered the storm and nailed him. Considering Takam's age, wear and inactivity I don't think it would go any better for him now. Whyte 3 or Helenius would be good rematches for Chisora.

 

No Fury wasn't regarded that highly after his return from 2 years off and eating an drinking binge. There was many doubters of how good Fury as he looked poor in both his return fight against low level guys.

Furys dad said anyone half decent would of beaten Fury in the condition he was still in in the Fury vs Wilder fight.

Of course Fury ducked the AJ fight for more money and fought a very limited, untested HW with waffee thin record in Wilder instead as it was the easier fight and Fury was still not close to being his best (hence the poor peformance in the first Wilder fight, that and he had inexperienced coach who used the wrong tactics.).

 

Right,,,I keep waiting for the WBA to announce the senior heavyweight championship belt.