Carmen Basilio vs Jose Mantequilla Napoles, 147 lbs.

Napoles SD in a brutal , bloody, and ATG fight. Napoles was similar in many ways to Gavilan, who of course narrowly defeated Basilio.

 

Cheers. Graham is one of the greatest fighters ever to never win a championship.

 

Which prime welterweight did Basilio beat? (Genuine question)
The impression I get is that he occasionally beat some good but past prime names.
I see Napoles really outclassing him, closing that left eye and possibly forcing a stoppage. As always, Basilio will be game and win some rounds early on.

 

DeMarco was prime, and so was Saxton and Turner. I thought even Billy Graham may have been prime. Ortega and Jordan were prime, but that was at the end of Basilio's career. It all depends on your point of view ig.

 

He went 1-1-1 with Billy Graham (who's undoubtedly elite in his own right) and he has a case for getting the better of Gavilan in there fight too. Obviously he has wins over a past prime Robinson, and he also beat Ike Williams who was over the hill. Then there's the slew of tough brawlers he fought who were very good like Ortega, Turner, Saxton, DeMarco etc.

 

No way Robbie was past his prime. As I see it, Robbie and Carmen used each other up when the split two of the most brutal fights of all time.

 

I mean, Robinson was 36. Since he'd come out of that three year retirement and started picking up more and more losses, not to mention the fights with Fullmer, and him being perceived as on the slide before the retirement.

I think he was absolutely past prime.

 

I can agree that those two fights were not Robinson at his absolute genius, but of all the fights we have of Robbie on film, there are none (except for maybe the Fullmer fights) where Robinson absorbed and dished out so much punishment. Those fights emphasized Robinson's quality of durability perhaps more than any others in his whole long, illustrious career.

 

Robinson was a good 7-8 years past prime by 57'-'58, I'd say.

 

@George Crowcroft and @salsanchezfan, what would you call Robinson's prime?

 

About '49-'51, something like that.

 

I'd say from the mid 40s to early 50s, the Turpin and Graziano fights were signs he was slipping IMO. But he was still good enough to beat most whilst past prime.

 

that's a pretty brief prime.

 

So you think that Robinson was washed up when he KO'd Olson twice in '55 and '56, waged four wars with prime Fulllmer, winning the second one with the "perfect punch" and splitting two brutal wars with prime Basilio? You think he was did all that as a shot fighter?