Carnera vs Valuev.

Well that's that.

 

Impelletiere had Loughran down twice .Carnera couldn't manage it.

If Primo could punch they wouldn't have had to fix so many of his fights.

 

So I guess that Impelletiere beat him pretty easily!

 

He beat Loughran in his 7th fight the referee stopped the fight in his favour but was subsequently overruled.

 

I guess Carnera is lucky that he never fought the fearsome Impelletiere!

 

Anybody say Impelletiere was "fearsome"?
Maybe you should do some research before making silly statements?

Carnera and Impelletiere went 9rds. before Impelletiere was stopped on a tko ,he out boxed Carnera early.
Impelletiere had 10 fights experience at that point, Carnera 88!

1935-03-15 : Primo Carnera 268 lbs beat Ray Impelletiere 258 lbs by TKO at 0:38 in round 9 of 10

• Location: Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USA
• Referee: Jack Dempsey

"Carnera had trouble reaching Ray at first and was actually outboxed by the comparatively inexperienced upstart in the opening sessions. In the 6th he succeeded in getting through Impellitiere's defence with a resounding left hook. Ray shook perceptibly and from that point Carnera was totally in control." (New York Times)

 

Ray Impelletiere

Well, Carnera was a mediocre champion at best, but picking through his opponents records like this proves nothing.

Loughran was knocked down by Impelletiere. This proves?

In 1955, world flyweight champion Pascual Perez was knocked down by Antonio Gomez, who had a listed record of 4-7-2 going into the fight (and a career record of 9-22-3). Perez went on to hold the title five more years and defend it several times. Much better fighters could not put Perez down.

Henry Brimm fought a draw with Sugar Ray Robinson. Much better fighters could not do as well.

What do these things prove? In boxing, sh-t happens now and then.

It is best to keep perspective.

Loughran beat Impelletiere three straight times (despite giving up the better part of a foot in height and gobs of weight), and Carnera knocked him all over the ring (the fight is on you tube).

That Impelletiere got lucky and landed a knockdown punch on Loughran, as Gomez did on Perez, proves nothing much.

 

My point is Carnera was not a puncher and he didn't possess "devastating power ,"as one poster has declared.
Carnera has 70 stoppage wins for a near70% ko percentage.

If the historians /experts thought they were kosher he would be listed among the 100 greatest punchers wouldn't you agree?
They don't and he isn't.

 

on Carnera

I don't how much emphasis should be put on what happened to Carnera from 1936 on. He was suffering from diabetes and kidney disease. He had a kidney removed in 1938. This certainly could have plausibly substantially weakened him as a fighter.

It is interesting that despite his "glass jaw" rep, Carnera was stopped prior to 1936 only by Baer and Louis, and the only other man to put him down was Sharkey--all champions. Lots of guys who are not considered to have glass jaws were put down by lesser fighters than that.

As for Carnera's punching, the most interesting quote might be from Hype Igoe:

"My contention is that Carnera is somewhat muscle-bound. That accounts for his inability to snap a hard punch. With the uppercut, it is different. He isn't afraid to step in close and when he is in the position, he brings his right up like an elevator in a new, snappy tower building."

The Sharkey KO was from what looks on film to be a powerful uppercut.

James Dawson's description of that punch--"A terrific right hand uppercut to the chin which almost decapitated Sharkey and brought Carnera the title."

 

"devastating power"

Certainly not consistently.

But he was such a huge man compared to most of his competition that some of these awkward, clumsy punches, and his very good stamina, were enough to stop heavies who were ordinary in size, skill, durability, and stamina. Basically, he is like a 200 lb. man who is consistently matched with middleweights.

"They don't and he isn't."

Carnera was certainly not a top puncher consistently, but the issue for me is was he clearly so bad that only falling back on the "all the fights were fixed" position can explain his moderate success compared to other champions.

He won the championship from a man who didn't deserve the decision which gave him the title, and who proved to be more or less at the end of the trail, losing most of his remaining fights. Carnera, if nothing else, could throw a good right uppercut, and had a strong jab.

I think it was enough against a weak champion.

That said, Carnera was definitely in the bottom tier of champions.

 

He never duplicated that feat and some of the "guests" around Sharkey's training camp for that fight were definitely persona no grata with the authorities.How do you prove a fix? We've had some peculiar fights in our own time ,both the Ali/Liston ones for example. I'm not convinced, but maybe that is just me.

 

"peculiar fights"

I don't know how "peculiar" it is for the much bigger, younger, at his peak challenger stopping an aging, fading champion who (in my opinion) was not all that good to begin with. Carnera was knocking Sharkey about the ring even before he landed what appears on film to be a forceful uppercut.

Sharkey was only 6-5 going in and quite a few writers felt Carnera had improved a lot while Sharkey was going back.

"persona non grata"

But underworld figures, from Capone down, being boxing fans is not unusual. In and of itself, I don't find this proof, or really even evidence.

My take is "The Harder They Fall" is good fiction, but it is no more "only the facts, please" than, let's say, "The Gunfight at the OK Corral" is the truth about that historical event.

"I'm not convinced"

Fair enough. But my take is the weight of evidence is on the side of the fight being on the level.

"He never duplicated that feat"

This seems to clash with the 70% KO ratio.

 

It depends on how many of those stoppages were over men who actually were there to win.
Sharkey had handled Carnera easily in their first fight even dropping him.
Bottom line.
Too many of Primo's fights have question marks over them for me.