Cassius Clay vs Alex Miteff (How Much Did They Pay Alex To Take A Dive)

Flea Man · Oct 24, 2012

salsanchezfan said: ↑

Seriously Pepe, what the **** is the matter with you? Were you dropped repeatedly on your head as a child or something? If so, I feel badly for you and all that, but good ****ing god.......your posts are like that of a damn psychopath. Seek help, you wanker.
Click to expand...

Another Britishism slips through! Wanker! Quality stuff

Senor Pepe' · Oct 25, 2012

Alex Miteff,

Had his left eye sliced up bad by Cleveland Williams (May 16), and again by Bob Cleroux (on June 22)

It was still damaged when he fought Cassius Clay in October 1961.

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johnmaff36 · Oct 25, 2012

Senor Pepe' said: ↑

Alex Miteff,

Had his left eye sliced up bad by Cleveland Williams (May 16), and again by Bob Cleroux (on June 22)

It was still damaged when he fought Cassius Clay in October 1961.
Click to expand...

In fairness SP, no matter what anyone thinks 1 way or another, Clay was turned pro barely 12 months whilst Miteff had fought Henry Cooper,Chuvalo and Big cat in the same space of time. Make of that what you will.

Senor Pepe' · Oct 25, 2012

johnmaff36 said: ↑

In fairness SP, no matter what anyone thinks 1 way or another, Clay was turned pro barely 12 months whilst Miteff had fought Henry Cooper,Chuvalo and Big cat in the same space of time. Make of that what you will.
Click to expand...

True JM -

But Alex was in no way the fighter he once was -

In his May 16, 1961 bout with Cleveland Williams in Houston, Alex was
battered from the opening bell, dropped twice, had his left eye sliced open
and was clobbered into a dazed stuppor in Round 5, when he was finally saved
by an 'inept' Referee from a further 'frightening' pummeling.

5-weeks later, his Manager (Howard Albert) took the short money, and
threw him in the ring with Bob Cleroux in Canada at the Montreal Forum (June 22).

With a still damaged left eye, Alex fought 'Evenly' with Bob Cleroux for
'3-Rounds', before Cleroux started ripping him apart. By the end of Round 4,
the cut left eye was now a deep gash, and Cleroux tore it apart
with right-crosses, leaving Alex with a blood-drenched face.

The bout was stopped at the end of Round 6 (TKO 7).

AP Report from Montreal, 'Alex Miteff will require a long needed rest, as he
appears to be a shell of his former self. A once promising Heavyweight, who
was ranked as high as #6, has now been turned into an opponent for
the local hero. A still relatively young man at age 26, he looks shell-shocked
and has advanced stages of scar-tissue above his often cut eye-brows.
Another fight like the one last night, and he may end up in the hospital
for more than an over-night stay. The boxing game has left him, and he
should take a long rest, and re-evaluate his future in this brutal sport
before he thinks about continuing.'

I'll agree, Cassius was just a young 'promising Heavyweight', but his KO over
Alex Miteff was nothing more than a 'padded win'.

johnmaff36 · Oct 25, 2012

Senor Pepe' said: ↑

True JM -

But Alex was in no way the fighter he once was -

In his May 16, 1961 bout with Cleveland Williams in Houston, Alex was
battered from the opening bell, dropped twice, had his left eye sliced open
and was clobbered into a dazed stuppor in Round 5, when he was finally saved
by an 'inept' Referee from a further 'frightening' pummeling.

5-weeks later, his Manager (Howard Albert) took the short money, and
threw him in the ring with Bob Cleroux in Canada at the Montreal Forum (June 22).

With a still damaged left eye, Alex fought 'Evenly' with Bob Cleroux for
'3-Rounds', before Cleroux started ripping him apart. By the end of Round 4,
the cut left eye was now a deep gash, and Cleroux tore it apart
with right-crosses, leaving Alex with a blood-drenched face.

The bout was stopped at the end of Round 6 (TKO 7).

AP Report from Montreal, 'Alex Miteff will require a long needed rest, as he
appears to be a shell of his former self. A once promising Heavyweight, who
was ranked as high as #6, has now been turned into an opponent for
the local hero. A still relatively young man at age 26, he looks shell-shocked
and has advanced stages of scar-tissue above his often cut eye-brows.
Another fight like the one last night, and he may end up in the hospital
for more than an over-night stay. The boxing game has left him, and he
should take a long rest, and re-evaluate his future in this brutal sport
before he thinks about continuing.'

I'll agree, Cassius was just a young 'promising Heavyweight', but his KO over
Alex Miteff was nothing more than a 'padded win'.
Click to expand...

I dont think anyone has suggested otherwise. I agree he was a 'name' to pad up his resume but that is standard practice now and back then for up and coming fighters, let alone an olympic gold medalist in his career infancy, but to hint at the fix is another thing altogether. You make a case for a fix here then you just as well may start claiming fixes for any number of novice pro's

Senor Pepe' · Oct 25, 2012

JM,

The 'take a dive' was based upon the high fight purse that Alex Miteff received.

More or less as response to William Faversham Jr., who originally offered Alex Miteff
and Howard Albert $3500 - for a former Top 10 ranked heavyweight.

The counter offer from Howard Albert was, 'Give me $10,000 - and you've got him.'

It was 'good business' on both manager's part.

Lord Tywin · Oct 25, 2012

Thats called negotiating, not bribing... It happens every single time a fight is made. By this logic every fight is fixed.

Senor Pepe' · Oct 25, 2012

Howard Albert 'negotiated' nicely for his fighter then.

And got him a 'bit part' in the movie too.

$10,000 for a fighter who was going to retire anyway.

Lord Tywin · Oct 25, 2012

Is Glen Johnson getting ready to throw the fight he just came out of retirement for?

kmiteff · Feb 21, 2013

For the record, as far as anyone is concerned, my dad did not "take a dive" when he fought Clay. He would have found even the offer revolting and it would have been a dark day for anyone to even suggest such a thing to him.

I had a conversation many years ago with my dad about his fight with Clay and he revealed to me that -- what is obvious to some on this forum -- that he had already pretty much given up on the fight game. He said that he had fought over 125 amateur fights in Argentina before he came here, starting at the age of 16, and he was already "tired" of it. I asked him -- point blank -- if he ever wanted to be World Champion. His face suddenly changed expression, like he had never even thought to ask himself this question before -- I'll never forget it because it was so uncharacteristic of him to show that kind of uncertainty for more than an instant. His ultimate conclusion: "Nahhhh. Not really, no. I was already so tired of the whole thing by that time..." When I relayed this later to my mother, never the rah rah supporter of my dad that she thinks she was, she was quick to point out, "your father was a fantastic fighter... amazing to watch... a little flat on his feet, but he moved his body and hands so fast... incredible... but he was fighting a lot of smaller people back in Argentina. When he got [to the U.S.], they threw all these big American monsters at him and they wore him down too much..." She seems to think the turning point for my dad was his fight with Mike DeJohn (although her memory may be off). She said DeJohn saw defeating my dad as his "ticket" and that my father did not train or take the DeJohn fight seriously enough. She said that DeJohn hurt my dad so bad in that fight that he was "never the same", which I have always found to be a disturbing statement.

As far as my dad and Ali, they always seemed to enjoy each others company when ever they would meet and my dad never said anything bad about him. The bombastic Ali you see on the newsreels and movies didn't jibe with what I saw and how my dad felt about him. He seemed a real cool guy out of the media's eye. Ali once confided that he was spitting blood for days after all the body blows he took in their fight, the only time that ever happened to him. I doubt my dad was pulling his punches. Ali/Clay didn't think so.

My mother, once again not one to miss giving an opinion, after seeing the Clay vs. Miteff fight again after many years commented, "You see, he is doing that stupid thing, sticking out his chin. He thought he could get away with it, like it's funny and -- BAM! -- Ali got him good. I told him to stop doing idiotic stuff like that..." (translated from my mom's rapid fire Spanish)

My dad always said my mom was his toughest opponent!

Karim Miteff

salsanchezfan · Feb 21, 2013

kmiteff said: ↑

For the record, as far as anyone is concerned, my dad did not "take a dive" when he fought Clay. He would have found even the offer revolting and it would have been a dark day for anyone to even suggest such a thing to him.

I had a conversation many years ago with my dad about his fight with Clay and he revealed to me that -- what is obvious to some on this forum -- that he had already pretty much given up on the fight game. He said that he had fought over 125 amateur fights in Argentina before he came here, starting at the age of 16, and he was already "tired" of it. I asked him -- point blank -- if he ever wanted to be World Champion. His face suddenly changed expression, like he had never even thought to ask himself this question before -- I'll never forget it because it was so uncharacteristic of him to show that kind of uncertainty for more than an instant. His ultimate conclusion: "Nahhhh. Not really, no. I was already so tired of the whole thing by that time..." When I relayed this later to my mother, never the rah rah supporter of my dad that she thinks she was, she was quick to point out, "your father was a fantastic fighter... amazing to watch... a little flat on his feet, but he moved his body and hands so fast... incredible... but he was fighting a lot of smaller people back in Argentina. When he got [to the U.S.], they threw all these big American monsters at him and they wore him down too much..." She seems to think the turning point for my dad was his fight with Mike DeJohn (although her memory may be off). She said DeJohn saw defeating my dad as his "ticket" and that my father did not train or take the DeJohn fight seriously enough. She said that DeJohn hurt my dad so bad in that fight that he was "never the same", which I have always found to be a disturbing statement.

As far as my dad and Ali, they always seemed to enjoy each others company when ever they would meet and my dad never said anything bad about him. The bombastic Ali you see on the newsreels and movies didn't jibe with what I saw and how my dad felt about him. He seemed a real cool guy out of the media's eye. Ali once confided that he was spitting blood for days after all the body blows he took in their fight, the only time that ever happened to him. I doubt my dad was pulling his punches. Ali/Clay didn't think so.

My mother, once again not one to miss giving an opinion, after seeing the Clay vs. Miteff fight again after many years commented, "You see, he is doing that stupid thing, sticking out his chin. He thought he could get away with it, like it's funny and -- BAM! -- Ali got him good. I told him to stop doing idiotic stuff like that..." (translated from my mom's rapid fire Spanish)

My dad always said my mom was his toughest opponent!

Karim Miteff
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard man; keep posting..........

mcvey · Feb 22, 2013

Senor Pepe' said: ↑

Cassius Clay vs. Alex Miteff

A 'controversial dive' by Alex Miteff, after he had been battling
Cassius Clay on more than even ground during their bout.
Click to expand...

Oh Christ you're back.
$500

mcvey · Feb 22, 2013

kmiteff said: ↑

For the record, as far as anyone is concerned, my dad did not "take a dive" when he fought Clay. He would have found even the offer revolting and it would have been a dark day for anyone to even suggest such a thing to him.

I had a conversation many years ago with my dad about his fight with Clay and he revealed to me that -- what is obvious to some on this forum -- that he had already pretty much given up on the fight game. He said that he had fought over 125 amateur fights in Argentina before he came here, starting at the age of 16, and he was already "tired" of it. I asked him -- point blank -- if he ever wanted to be World Champion. His face suddenly changed expression, like he had never even thought to ask himself this question before -- I'll never forget it because it was so uncharacteristic of him to show that kind of uncertainty for more than an instant. His ultimate conclusion: "Nahhhh. Not really, no. I was already so tired of the whole thing by that time..." When I relayed this later to my mother, never the rah rah supporter of my dad that she thinks she was, she was quick to point out, "your father was a fantastic fighter... amazing to watch... a little flat on his feet, but he moved his body and hands so fast... incredible... but he was fighting a lot of smaller people back in Argentina. When he got [to the U.S.], they threw all these big American monsters at him and they wore him down too much..." She seems to think the turning point for my dad was his fight with Mike DeJohn (although her memory may be off). She said DeJohn saw defeating my dad as his "ticket" and that my father did not train or take the DeJohn fight seriously enough. She said that DeJohn hurt my dad so bad in that fight that he was "never the same", which I have always found to be a disturbing statement.

As far as my dad and Ali, they always seemed to enjoy each others company when ever they would meet and my dad never said anything bad about him. The bombastic Ali you see on the newsreels and movies didn't jibe with what I saw and how my dad felt about him. He seemed a real cool guy out of the media's eye. Ali once confided that he was spitting blood for days after all the body blows he took in their fight, the only time that ever happened to him. I doubt my dad was pulling his punches. Ali/Clay didn't think so.

My mother, once again not one to miss giving an opinion, after seeing the Clay vs. Miteff fight again after many years commented, "You see, he is doing that stupid thing, sticking out his chin. He thought he could get away with it, like it's funny and -- BAM! -- Ali got him good. I told him to stop doing idiotic stuff like that..." (translated from my mom's rapid fire Spanish)

My dad always said my mom was his toughest opponent!

Karim Miteff
Click to expand...

Nice to hear your Dad's take on things .
Don't take any notice of Pepe he is our resident troll and Ali hater.

groove · Feb 22, 2013

Thanks for the great post KMiteff. Pepe knew nothing about keeping it real - only constantly spreading wild accusations without any real evidence about Ali and fixed fights.

Stevie G · Feb 22, 2013

kmiteff said: ↑

For the record, as far as anyone is concerned, my dad did not "take a dive" when he fought Clay. He would have found even the offer revolting and it would have been a dark day for anyone to even suggest such a thing to him.

I had a conversation many years ago with my dad about his fight with Clay and he revealed to me that -- what is obvious to some on this forum -- that he had already pretty much given up on the fight game. He said that he had fought over 125 amateur fights in Argentina before he came here, starting at the age of 16, and he was already "tired" of it. I asked him -- point blank -- if he ever wanted to be World Champion. His face suddenly changed expression, like he had never even thought to ask himself this question before -- I'll never forget it because it was so uncharacteristic of him to show that kind of uncertainty for more than an instant. His ultimate conclusion: "Nahhhh. Not really, no. I was already so tired of the whole thing by that time..." When I relayed this later to my mother, never the rah rah supporter of my dad that she thinks she was, she was quick to point out, "your father was a fantastic fighter... amazing to watch... a little flat on his feet, but he moved his body and hands so fast... incredible... but he was fighting a lot of smaller people back in Argentina. When he got [to the U.S.], they threw all these big American monsters at him and they wore him down too much..." She seems to think the turning point for my dad was his fight with Mike DeJohn (although her memory may be off). She said DeJohn saw defeating my dad as his "ticket" and that my father did not train or take the DeJohn fight seriously enough. She said that DeJohn hurt my dad so bad in that fight that he was "never the same", which I have always found to be a disturbing statement.

As far as my dad and Ali, they always seemed to enjoy each others company when ever they would meet and my dad never said anything bad about him. The bombastic Ali you see on the newsreels and movies didn't jibe with what I saw and how my dad felt about him. He seemed a real cool guy out of the media's eye. Ali once confided that he was spitting blood for days after all the body blows he took in their fight, the only time that ever happened to him. I doubt my dad was pulling his punches. Ali/Clay didn't think so.

My mother, once again not one to miss giving an opinion, after seeing the Clay vs. Miteff fight again after many years commented, "You see, he is doing that stupid thing, sticking out his chin. He thought he could get away with it, like it's funny and -- BAM! -- Ali got him good. I told him to stop doing idiotic stuff like that..." (translated from my mom's rapid fire Spanish)

My dad always said my mom was his toughest opponent!

Karim Miteff
Click to expand...

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