Chagaev vs. Valuev - Controversial?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by TFFP, Dec 5, 2008.

  1. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    The judges would seem to think so. Judge Hernandez saw this by the slim margin of 115-113 for Chagaev. Mr Christodoulou, who interestingly scored Chagaev-Ruiz wide in Chag's favour managed to find a 114-114 draw. Whilst Judge Prayadsab, like me, scored it wide for Chagaev 117-111.

    I took it upon myself to rewatch this. I saw an excellent and smart performance by Ruslan Chagaev. To me this fight really highlighted his strengths and showed up the giants limitations. Defensively he was very good, he took away Valuev's main weapon, the jab, with excellent movement and mobility. He'd often be forced back onto the ropes, but his upper body and head movement avoided most things. Offensively he was economical, but effective with lead and counter left hands and the occasional jab to the body.

    To me Chagaev landed all of the clean powerful punches in this fight. If fights were scored on ponderously moving about the ring like an oak tree whilst throwing limp jabs Valuev wins by landslide. I struggled to find more than 2 or 3 rounds for Valuev, so the scoring bemuses me.

    I think the fight is a good demonstration of why Chagaev was previously highly rated before disapearing off the radar. He's very mobile and quick for a heavy, excellent defence, extremely good timing and accuracy and enough power to stop a giant in his tracks. Not to mention he implements his gameplan and clearly has ring smarts. Perhaps it could be said Valuev has improved his jab and overall skills, but I don't think he's faced anybody with the attributes to negate him since.

    How did you score it? Watch for yourself if you have time. Vote.

    How do (or did) you feel about Chagaev as a fighter?

    Any news on his potential return?


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  2. MrMagic

    MrMagic Loyal Member Full Member

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    I think Chagaev dominated him.
     
  3. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    I thought so too. Two judges seem to disagree, I was wondering if there was scope for this being close or even in Valuev's favour amongst ESB. Even a few reports I read seem to indicate it was close.
     
  4. D-MAC

    D-MAC Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Taking into account the height, reach and weight disparity I think it was a masterclass by Chagaev.

    Used his advantage in mobility, speed of punch delivery and accuracy of punch to great affect.

    He started to time Valuev for the hook early on, and stuck with it; by the late rounds he couldn't miss with that punch.

    It was a pretty conclusive victory in my books.

    I rate Chagaev very highly, and hope he can get over his illnesses and injuries to make a big impact on the division.

    He is arguably the most intelligent fighter in the division.
     
  5. madpup

    madpup Active Member Full Member

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    This was an excellent performance from Chagaev, he boxed very smart and won convincingly. Valuev came to live in the last 3 rounds, and actually looked dangerous, but Chagaev showed excellent defence. I had it about 8 rounds to 4 for Chagaev.

    He is a good boxer, I hope we see him fit and back in action soon.
     
  6. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    I thought Chagaev won clearly,it was to expect that the judges will make it as close as possible.
     
  7. Odo

    Odo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It was a close fight,but I for one scored it in favour of Chagaev,too.

    Props to Chagaev for sticking to his game plan and counterboxing as beautifully as he did against Valuev.
    Had never seen Chagaev fighting that defensively before.
    Props to his coach his excellent game plan as well!
     
  8. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    Where do you find 4 for Valuev?

    He didn't do anything but tentatively jab, and a good percentage fell short. He very rarely did throw anything other than a jab, and they were mostly ineffective. For example, through the first 4 rounds I counted 2 jabs that actually snapped Chagaev's head back.

    Whilst in every round Chagaev landed clean power punches, some more than others.
     
  9. DamonD

    DamonD Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Only in that it should've been a UD for Chagaev.

    It wasn't massively wide or anything, but I think it was either a probably 8-4 or a rock-certain 7-5 in Chagaev's favour.

    It's one of the main reasons I see Chagaev as still one of the best in the division, despite his long layoffs. Others got close to this, but Chagaev is the only one to put it all together to beat Valuev.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Can't remember what my card was, but it wasn't close for me, Chagaev all the way.

    As to how I felt about Chagaev, I was off the opinion that he was the best HW in the world, not a position many shared, I know. Now? Impossible to say. Against Skelton I felt he could have closed the blinds in round 10 but stepped off for fear of gassing. Since then, he's done his Achilles tendon, I believe? He may never be back between the hep C and this injury, and if he does he is unlikely to stay fit, and if he does he is unlikely to be the same.

    Hard to say where the smart money should be in a rematch, given all of that, but I'd tend to go with an improved Valuev.
     
  11. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wasn't even close... 116-112, clear decision for Chagaev.

    There's an issue that makes Valuev fights hard to score properly. He's so big that even big clean shots either to the head and to the body (Donald, Ruiz in the 1st, Chagaev and even Bergeron landed dozens of clean shots) simply don't move the giant's head or body around like when normal sized fighters getting caught. Also, his back is so big, that many times one or even 2 judges simply can't see punches landing on the other side. I know it sounds funny, but several fans or guys from the press sitting ringside confirmed that you see nothing when you're on the wrong side of Valuev. This probably has an effect on judges (as well as Mr. Sauerland's back lol).

    I had Donald CLEARLY ahead on the scorecards, Ruiz winning in a close fight and Chagaev 116-112, ALWAYS landing clean lefts in close rounds to seal the deal... At this point, not having seen the 2nd Ruiz fight, I have 3 fights that Valuev lost on my cards, 2 by not even a close margin. I also scored the Bergeron fight a draw. BTW Valuev is always moving his hands like he was jabbing, but he's terribly inaccurate (or was inaccurate in these fights), and he lands at a very low percentage altogether.

    I guess I'm among the few, but me and many friends of mine have the same scores... Of course we always score live fights, never care about commentaries and see most fights in excellent quality.
     
  12. nool

    nool New Member Full Member

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    Clear decision win for Chagaev.

    No question...
     
  13. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    Good point actually, it must be hard to see ANYTHING from behind Valuev.

    Also, he does flick out a jab a lot, it gives the impression of activity, and the fact he's so big with reach means most have to backup and it can look like he's the ring general when its completely not the case.

    That said, there was really no excuse for not seeing the plethora of left hands landed by Chagaev and scoring it a draw.
     
  14. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    Hmm, I seem to recall people scoring this for Valuev at the time.

    Have I changed their minds? Have they rewatched and seen the errors of their way? What happened? :huh

    Any news on Chagaev at all?
     
  15. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Why this interest in The Sasquatch man?