Champions who'd been greater had X champion not been there....

There will be countless. But how primed was Valdes post Monzon anyway? I remember seeing an argument on here than Monzon dodged Valdes until he saw vulnerability and he lost a step. This is possibly unfair and we all know about agendas on boxing forums. But the fact is Monzon initially dropped the belt. By the time they fought Valdes was 30 and by the age of 32 he dropped a decision to Corro

I suppose there's a good case Valdes becomes undisputed if there is no Monzon though. IS the fight closer a few years earlier?

 

People will point to Liston and Foreman. But Liston was slipping. He probably hangs in there for a few years but there would be question marks about his heart and stamina when the young hungry fighters came through. Machen gave him a close fight too, so it's possible Machen pulls off the rematch as Sonny slows down. Then he has Terrell, Bonavena, Frazier, Quarry coming through

Foreman would be champ longer but was always going to get found out, Young eventually outboxed him anyway. Holmes probably has his way with him.

 

Many cases to mention. Just out of my head:

Canzoneri without Ross.
Patterson without Liston.
Frazier without Foreman I.
Foreman I without Ali.
Duran without SRL.
Spinks without Tyson.
Tucker without Tyson.
Jackson without McClellan.
Moorer without Foreman II.
Ruiz without Joshua.

IMO without their spoilers, all those guys get 1- 2 extra years at the top, and in some cases maybe up to 3 - 5 extra years.

 

Canzoneri without Ross - Yes

Patterson without Liston - Does Cleveland Williams do similar, the intimidation partly beat Floyd before he was in the ring, compare to how Machen did against Liston who Patterson actually beat. Still Floyd may hang on until Ali. I wonder if Cus De Amato made him scared of some of the contenders

Frazier without Foreman I. - only until Ali 2, so maybe the same time frame

Foreman I without Ali - until Young or Holmes, yes though

Duran without SRL - until a Hearns unification, so not much longer

Spinks without Tyson - I think there was a list of HWs who'd fancy it

Tucker without Tyson - you can't have both my man

Jackson without McClellan - I think JJ is past his best weight and prime anyway. Quincy Jones stopped him shortly after

Moorer without Foreman II - allot of guys could of taken Moorer at this stage

Ruiz without Joshua - again there's probably a long list who could take Ruiz on his first defense. Tyson Fury joked he'd show up with his right arm tied behind his back and jab him all night long

 

Esteban DeJesus without Duran.

 

This is an interesting one. Let's say that Duran never got into boxing.

De Jesus has a longer reign and maybe history grants him more respect as THE lightweight champ instead of as a beltholder, but he loses the win over Duran. That's the signature moment of his career, more than anything he did in any title fight. He couldn't have gotten a win of that stature against anyone else who was hanging around at lightweight during that time. As has been brought up when talking about Duran, he wouldn't have been reigning over a field of strong contenders. And when he moved up he got beaten easily by Cervantes, so he probably couldn't do much to add to his greatness at super lightweight.

I suppose the best-case scenario for his legacy is that he gets his non-title win over Duran and Duran shoots up the weights before they can ever rematch. He probably is better off having gone 1-2 against Duran than never having faced him, though.

 

Ken Buchannan and DeJesus potentially

 

Pulev, Povetkin, Ibragimov, Brock if not for Wlad.

 

Who rules though? I think it's between Povetkin and Haye. Well obviously it's Vitali really but he'd have to not be there too

 

Does James Toney still fall off a cliff if RJJ isn't around to humiliate him?

There's probably no need to force him down from 175 to 168. Does he still lose to Griffin and Thadzi if his ego isn't bruised? Without RJJ 175 was kind of set up for a Toney reign if he could come to those bouts in shape. Darius seems tailor made for him

Also if Toney is thrown into 175 title fights I imagine he trains harder than when he's fighting gatekeepers

 

Duran vs SRL is possible if Duran actually sparked his brightest lights consistently,I'd even say he could beat the Hearns that hasn't developed good recovery skills at welterweight,since Duran still had his legs too.

 

Cotto without Fraud and Menny
McCallum without Kalambay
Kalambay without Nunn