Prime Ortiz on PEDs was a beast and basically unbeatable. Unfortunately he wasted his prime so we will never know how good he really was. He's still a good fighter though but people have a wrong impression on Luis Ortiz in 2021/2022 and who he is at this point. If he gets past Martin comfortably and without a scare i'd be surprised. I think he gets rocked and buzzed at least once here. He's just too hittable at this point. If Martin lands the same amount of clean shots Hammer landed on Ortiz then i can guarantee you that Martin will KTFO him.
See you say that, but his best win to this day is a gatekeeper in Jennings - hard to call anyone unbeatable that never fought a legit contender whilst I'm their prime. Had Ortiz fought Wlad in his prime, he'd have beaten easily dealt with. Ditto Povetkin. I don't think Ortiz was as special as some like to think he was - and either way, there's very little evidence that he was (I've argued before why I think you have to assume a fighter that doesn't prove they're elite far more likely than not wasn't).
Prime Ortiz with PEDs was basically a more aggressive and bigger & powerful version of Usyk. I know this sounds stupid but it is what it is. Ortiz is one of the best pure boxers in the division for the last 20 years. And with those PEDs he also had the size and power to knock opponents unconscious. I know many people talking like you and it's reasonable because Ortiz has never fought anyone to confirm the eye test. But in the end i'm still convinced Ortiz in his absolute prime with the benefit of some PEDs was a monster. Nobody will ever change my mind on that although i have to respect different opinions because of the facts. I'm still pissed he wasted so many years....he's one my favorites and i'm still buying a 40USD PPV to support my Cuban boy. LETS GO KING KONG
Pfft, sorry, I'm not buying that. He's always looked slick against journeyman opponents - that doesn't make you Usyk. To be Usyk level, you've gotta prove you can do that to elite level fighters, and Ortiz has never even fought an elite fighter. Precisely - the eye test against journeymen and at best a gatekeeper in Jennings only proves he's slick at that level. As far as it carrying up to the elite level goes, the odds are massively against it - the higher up the tree you go, the less and less individuals are capable of holding their own let alone climbing, and Ortiz never showed himself anywhere near the top few branches. I get that this is a gut feeling, we all have them, but I gotta be honest with you I just ain't buying it.
Oh come on. He boxed Wilders ears off and was probably 10 seconds away from knocking him unconscious in the first fight. And we're talking about a guy who was almost 40 years old OFF the PEDs with a few injuries and other **** ****ing up his career in his mid 30s. We all know what a prime Ortiz on PEDs would have done to Windmill Wilder. While we can agree that Wilder isn't anything special skill-wise it still confirmed Ortiz (a 40yo with a lot of injuries and layoffs and OFF the PEDs) belongs to the elite guys. Additionally we didn't have a lot of WORLD CLASS and ELITE HWs in the last 10 years. Wlad, Fury, Usyk, Joshua, maybe Wilder. Who could be considered as an ELITE HW since 2010? And Usyk is new to the game since moving up although we knew he was good when he cleaned out the CW division. I think Prime Ortiz beats Joshua, Wilder and Wlad handily. My opinion. Based on the matchups and eye test. You don't have to agree with that but i'm super confident here. As i said...i don't care if people calling me crazy or a fangirl or whatever. It's my opinion. I have no facts on my side so i have to endure the mockery but it's still my opinion after following Ortiz career since his first few pro fights and seeing him in a very weak and predictable HW Divsion. I predicted all the stuff that happened in the last 7-10 years. So as you pointed out...i'm going with my gut feeling because if it comes to Heavyweights i was always right with it. But yeah...i obviously see your point and can't disagree. Beating Jennings, Diving Scott and Tony Thompson isn't exactly something i would call a deep resume to support my arguments.
Ortiz is certainly old. I'd be amazed if he has any birthdays left that begin with the number "4". I thought Jennings' whole game plan for that Ortiz fight was wrong - very careless. I think that did contribute to his stoppage by Ortiz. OTOH, I definitely did question his heart in those championship rounds against Wlad when the fight was there for the taking. And not exactly a boxing virtuoso - because several fighters have clipped and stopped him. But...outside of the rounds in which he was knocked down/stopped...Wilder maybe won one round against Ortiz across those two entire fights. Pretty similar to Tyson's performance, I'd say, even if the end results was different. And, of course, those fights were 3 or 4 years ago. Ortiz is not special now - or at least not special enough for long enough. I won't take the time to complete the exercise, but Ortiz may not even be a Top-25 HW any more. I simply think that Ortiz is a particularly-bad matchup for Martin. Charles is slow-footed, remarkably easy to hit, doesn't really try to make use of the angles that a Southpaw might use (though kind of problematic, anyhow, for an educated fighter like Ortiz) and - worst of all - doesn't seem to throw much in the early rounds.
I think Ortiz was the most dangerous high-risk/low-reward guy out there from late-2014 until late-2016. Nobody in the A-list wanted to fight him during that time. Obviously, Golden Boy just sat on him and never tried to make fights for him. I definitely wouldn't compare him to Usyk, though. Both are certainly very educated fighters, but otherwise quite different. For example, Usyk's gas tank/endurance is incredible. On the other hand, Ortiz wouldn't give chase to Malik Scott when the latter *really* started pedaling around in the 2nd half of their fight. And it seemed pretty clear that Ortiz was concerned about gas'ing out. And Ortiz certainly has (had?) big power in his left hand. Usyk is not the feather fist some accuse him of being - but it's fair to say he does most of his damage when the other fighter is tired and he is not.
I'd say Jennings was more than a gatekeeper when Ortiz fought him. Certainly a "contender" based on fights with Wlad, Fedosov, Szpilka, and Perez. He did beat all but the first. Can't really see Ortiz beating "prime" Wlad down the stretch because the latter would just hang on him until he wilted. Wlad would probably be able to create the right amount of distance between himself and Ortiz - so there wouldn't be all that much chance that Ortiz could catch him with a big left early. Not "no chance" but Wlad would certainly be favored by me here. Ortiz would have a pretty good chance with Povetkin, though. Povetkin was a terrific pressure fighter but I think Ortiz (in his prime) would be able to do some real damage with his jab and go heavily to Povetkin's body. Povetkin had very, very good stamina in his prime - but I think Ortiz could break him up. Not a sure thing, though.
I've got a feeling old man Ortiz is going to take the comparatively young Martin to school. Late tko for the ancient man from Cuba
You're crazy, a fangirl and whatever...... The very best WK puts a pedded, prime Ortizn't either in an unconscious heap, on a stretcher or in a body bag. When on their game, I reckon Hrgovic, Joyce, Parker, Ruiz Jnr. Whyte all handle Ortizn't fairly comfortably. Fury and Usyk would toy with him. AJ would likely do a Ruiz 2 on him and I reckon even the likes of Chisora, Takam, Dubois, even some up and coming young guns like Wardley would give him fits. Hes to far past it and inactive to be truly relevant now and if Charles Martin turns up tonight, he'll outwork and outlast Ortizn't.
