Charles P4P GOAT?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by PowerPuncher, Mar 20, 2008.


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  1. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Should Charles be P4P GOAT?

    Prize fighter from 160-HW facing everyone of note in those divisions and coming out on top from 1946-1951.

    Most rate him no1 LHW of all time.

    Why he should rate over:

    Sugar Ray Robinson - SRR avoided the best black fighters of his era and therefore the best P4P fighters of his era. SRR's resume therefore doesn't stand upto Ezzards. Ie, SRR avoided Burley who Charles beat.

    Henry Armstrong - Charles fought P4P better comp. Charles fought in as many weight classes. Charles was more dominant in his wins, whereas Armstrong struggled and lost to a lower tier of contender. Armstrong was also steered clear of Burley

    Greb - Charles fought in a harder era, Charles was around the same size as Greb but fought and beat the better HWs

    Duran - Charles wins are a level above Durans best wins

    Leonard - too inactive

    Fitzsimmons - Charles too was once a middleweight and fought and beat better HWs

    Ezzard Charles, who can beat his resume:

    Joe Louis - past his prime BUT still elite. Who can claim a better scalp in his 3rd division?

    Marciano - Charles was past his prime but still nearly beat Rocky in the first fight.

    Archie Moore - 5 wins against a top10 P4P of all time

    Burley - 1 of the best WWs ever?

    Jersey Joe Walcott - top15 HW of all time
    Bivins

    Lloyd Marshall

    Maxim

    Layne

    Satterfield

    Holman

    Elmer Ray

    A sensationally talented resume where he faced the fighters multiple times, avenging his losses, and having a long unbeaten run against the very best ducking no one.
     
    PowerPuncher, Mar 20, 2008
    PowerPuncher, Mar 20, 2008
    #1
  2. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    He does not rate above Greb at all. Your argument was very unconvincing, not to mention straight up incorrect, especially when taking into account the size of both fighters. Greb was a 5'8 MW fighting greats from MW to HW. Charles started at MW, but was clearly natural at LHW, and his overall resume is not better than Greb's in a P4P sense.

    He also lost 25 times out of about 115-120 fights, whereas Greb lost just 21 in about 300 fights. Not the best statistic, but it holds merit, considering you can make no case that Charles was more consistent, nor further past his best in his losses than a half blind Greb.

    I rate Charles #6 on my P4P list.
     
    Sweet Pea, Mar 20, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Mar 20, 2008
    #2
  3. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    #5.
     
    Manassa, Mar 20, 2008
    Manassa, Mar 20, 2008
    #3
  4. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    On review, this is a terrible post. You should check your facts (and your vantage points).
     
    Manassa, Mar 20, 2008
    Manassa, Mar 20, 2008
    #4
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Charles was considerably bigger than SRR,even in his early days so his wins overBurley and co arent as impressive ,as you imply,I wouldnt put Charles in my top 10 Hvys and it isnt a given he is no1 at LH ,with Tunney and Langford to consider,I would rate Greb above Ezzard,Armstrong too. I put Charles about 7th.p4p.
     
    mcvey, Mar 20, 2008
    mcvey, Mar 20, 2008
    #5
  6. Doppleganger

    Doppleganger Southside Slugger Full Member

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    Charles was a fantastic fighter but calling him P4P GOAT is a bit of a stretch, really. A case can be made for him being the greatest light heavyweight of all time but the GOAT? Really, no.
     
    Doppleganger, Mar 20, 2008
    Doppleganger, Mar 20, 2008
    #6
  7. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    He's certainly the greatest LHW of all time.
     
    Sweet Pea, Mar 20, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Mar 20, 2008
    #7
  8. Doppleganger

    Doppleganger Southside Slugger Full Member

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    I don't know about certainly but he has as good a shout as anyone.
     
    Doppleganger, Mar 20, 2008
    Doppleganger, Mar 20, 2008
    #8
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I dont personally think that he is the pond4pound goat but he would take some beating in this regard.

    In terms of resume and quality of oposition beaten he is in a group that could be counted on the fingers of one hand.
     
    janitor, Mar 20, 2008
    janitor, Mar 20, 2008
    #9
  10. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I'd say it's a pretty good certainty given his resume and dominance there. I don't know of anyone who has a 50/50 shout with him.
     
    Sweet Pea, Mar 20, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Mar 20, 2008
    #10
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Not Langford or Tunney?.Conn ,Foster?
     
    mcvey, Mar 20, 2008
    mcvey, Mar 20, 2008
    #11
  12. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Nah, not strictly at LHW.
     
    Sweet Pea, Mar 20, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Mar 20, 2008
    #12
  13. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    Charles is very arguably a top five pound for pound fighter based on his resume. But I wouldn't put him above Greb, Robinson, or Armstrong.
     
    brooklyn1550, Mar 20, 2008
    brooklyn1550, Mar 20, 2008
    #13
  14. Doppleganger

    Doppleganger Southside Slugger Full Member

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    There's a few fighters who at least head to head have a shout at beating him but I agree that Charles is probably the greatest LHW of all time. Beating Archie Moore 3 times kinda seals it.
     
    Doppleganger, Mar 20, 2008
    Doppleganger, Mar 20, 2008
    #14
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I have Langford above him, Charles is at two. I think Tunney would have a very good chance and you know I think Jones could possibly do a job on him.

    PP, I think there is a case. I see it this way - Greb, Langford, Robinson and Armstrong all have a very serious case.

    The second clutch is made up of Charles, Pep and Walker. With some work, a very very serious case can be made.

    Then you hvae guys like Duran, Ali, Moore, where no real case exsists, but there are slender threads that can be properly gathered into a compelling argument.

    I have Charles at #5 personally.
     
    McGrain, Mar 20, 2008
    McGrain, Mar 20, 2008
    #15
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