Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Russell, Dec 30, 2010.


  1. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Now before a collective mob castrates me, hear me out.

    I'm not saying he isn't a blatantly great fighter. But I want to hear some strong arguments for his case.

    To be honest, footage of him is lacking, something some are harsh on a fighter for.

    Another facet, his greatness seems to be partially word of mouth from very respected, more "cemented" greats like Archie Moore.

    Currently watching the analyzing genius video on youtube about Burley as well. Here's a link for anyone who hasn't seen it.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81non05aKX4[/ame]
     
  2. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Also, what was up with Burley's two losses to Ezzard Charles?

    Now Ezzard Charles is a consensus top 20, top 15 ATG great in many peoples opinions, or so I've seen. So its no knock against Burley really. But why did he lose to Ezzard consistently like that and seemingly struggle with some lesser competition?
     
  3. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I'd say Ezzard is top ten for a lot of people
     
  4. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Because he fought everyone in 1 of the best eras ever and gave up around 8lbs to an ATG in Charles (if memory serves me right). Despite being a natural WW he beat the crap out of nearly every MW in maybe the greatest era and had amazing skills
     
  5. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I rank Charles higher than Burley. Becuse of his two wins over him. Both are top 10 worthy.
     
  6. john garfield

    john garfield Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Savvy 'n well written, e. You're a welcome addition.
     
  7. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Welcome aboard man; we need guys like you here. :good
     
  8. SLAKKA

    SLAKKA Boxing Addict Full Member

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  9. SLAKKA

    SLAKKA Boxing Addict Full Member

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  10. punchy

    punchy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The man was brilliant it is a shame we don't see fighter's like this now, on the other hand we must remember that we do have a fight and all styles can be effective as Marciano proved.
     
  11. amhlilhaus

    amhlilhaus Well-Known Member Full Member

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    burley was working, got the notice to fight moore, left his job, caught a bus to the fight, beat moore and then caught the bus home and went to work the next day.

    great story.
     
  12. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    :lol::happy:happy
     
  13. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    However... it may be just that -a story.
     
  14. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The highlights against Smith prove his masterful skills, in my opinion, even if you're not willing to accept the contemporary accounts.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, that Moore story is for ****. Didn't Otty publish, either in the book or on the website, a program for the fight published a few days in advance? I understand that it was short notice, but not as short as was made out.


    As to the question at hand, just look at the mans wins. That should sort out any confusion.

    Then take a closer look at his losses.

    Charles x2. Lost his eleventh outing (from memory) of the year, and then twenty days later fought and beat Holman Williams, possibly better than any active fighter, before losing to Charles for the second time something like a week later - who would name the light-middle favoured to beat Holman Williams and then take on and beat Ezzard Charles a few days later?

    Marshall. Very close fight against a bigger ATG and Burley starts with a fractured hand. Who's the light-middle or middleweight who is going to beat Marshall one-handed?

    A green Bivins - young, but still one of the greats, and again, a bigger man.

    Holman Williams. Williams, who GPater described as possibly the best pure boxer in history the other day (Which I think is reasonable) beat Burley more than once, but it is worth noting that Burley lost at least one of those fights after throwing out his shoulder having knocked Williams down multiple times - in the box seat, Burley didn't win another round after the 9th (or the 10th, I forget). Also note that Burley was winning the NC between the two, though both men were being made to miss in that one.

    Fritzie Zivic beat him for 1/3, in a very close, possibly bad decision. That's a greenish version of Burley losing to a prime Zivic, the fighter that Robinson named the smartest he ever faced - before avenging the loss twice.


    Plus we have that sliver of film, Burley out-muscling, punching and boxing a ranked LHW contender who was also perhaps the hardest puncher boxing at that time. Burley is one of the best that ever did it.