Charley Burley vs. Emile Griffith

No1s touched this thread!! He's getting avoided even here on ESB, IN THE CLASSIC FORUM!!!!

I'll give it a go, Griffith in his prime is one of the finest h2h welters imo. Really fast hands and quality attack. But Burley will like someone coming to fight, can use that awkwardness and BANG, right hand which is a killler. Griffith can outwork Burley though maybe? I'll pick Burley though in this h2h, that movement circular was very effective i believe, could edge rounds with it combined with the jab, Griffith would win some of the action-packed rounds, but Burley would win a good few aswell with that powerful right and just edge a great one imo

 

Ne1 else got a take on this 1?? This a good thread imo

 

That's funny, T. I wasn't going to chime in, 'cause I basically see it the same way. Burley uses Griffith's agressiveness against him and schools him.

 

The reason i made that last post is cause i saw u musta been online, you just made a post, and i thought u would have stepped up Chinx!

Funny that isnt it, he still cant get a break!!!!

 

Yeah T, my old man, who idolized Robinson, used to say that Sugar wanted nothin' to do with Burley, who lived blocks from him farther up on the Hill, but who, despite his reputation was not allowed to train with the other great fighters around there, Fritzie and Billy Conn, etc, because of his race. Didn't matter that Charley's mother was whiter than white; The Pittsburgh Lyceum Gym had a strict WHITES ONLY policy, which Father O'Connor of Epiphany Catholic Church strictly enforced. I guess the truth is that Ray wasn't really afraid of losing to Charley (I agree with some others on this forum who have said that Ray would have probably come out on top); but it was just more that Ray had nothin' to gain and everything to lose by fighting Burley, who at one time in his career(I couldn't tell you exactly when, but I'd imagine early on, was so frustrated by his inability to get matched in his adopted home of Pittsburgh(he grew up in Bessemer, PA) that he migrated to the West Coast where he snagged the middleweight, the Lightheavy and the Heavyweight California State crowns.

 

Burley for me aswelll. Very close fight but as Chinx said Burley uses Griffith's aggressiveness against him and picks him off to win a close fight.

 

Yea, i read Burley's book, 'The Liife and Hard Times of an Uncrowned Champion',really a great, great book. I did an analysis on Burley-Robinson h2h on a thread here a while back, i did have Robinson winning for reasons i believe he may have (long post though Chinx, couldnt do it again now, its late over here!). But Robinson did dodge him, cant really be denied can it? I dont think he was scared, as you said, but i have become more sceptical as of late, what i mean is- Robinson to me is the greatest fighter ever, i mean that so much, but a great fighter can see things when watching others in the same trade, did he see something in Burley that he thought he couldnt overcome? I feel like im being disrespectful for even entertaining the thought! Thats how much i think of SRR, i really cant stress enough why he is my number 1, its not just a general consenus thing here!

I like that quote - something like this, not word for word-

when asked if he was bitter about not getting the Sugar fight, Burley replied- 'No, God asked me and Walker Smith jr. "which 1 of you 2 wants to be Sugar Ray Robinson then?", i guess i just never raised my hand fast enough'

If you know Burley's story (which im very confident you do Chinx!), you'll understand what is meant there.

BTW, how close would you have lived from the great Burley then Chinx? Not a contest in the 'who envies who's city's heritage' for us boxing purists is it???!!! Haha

 

I'll bow to your research on this match-up, T. When I was a kid we lived on the Lower Hill of Pittsburgh, which is basically downtown, and was then for the most part Italian, Jewish and Lebanese. The Upper Hill, which is less than a mile up the Hill was always, as far as I've ever known, nearly all black. Pittsburgh was then and still is to an extent a segregated city; not coming from racism anymore though, now more just out of tradition. The Epiphany Church is still there, surrounded by skyscrapers, but holding out, as stubborn as the Vatican is in that regard, but the Lyceum is long gone, as is boxing in any exciting degree in that town. The last promising guy was what, Paul Spadafora right? Who last I heard is doing time.

 

He did look promising Spadafora a few years back. A mile away from Charley Burley! When i read that book it was a bit sickening how he never got a chance, everytime i listened to Ricky Hattons complete bul**** about why he dodged Junior Witter for the best part of 10 years, it just made me think nothins changed and never will. Disgustin what Hatton did there imo, anyway, this is not the thread for that!!

A friend of mine did tell me though, that Burley was never actually number 1 contender, he lost at pivotal times when he would have been able to push for a title shot? I dont know if this is true, im sure one of the real historians here (Janitor or McGrain?) could shed some light on this for me (please do if you can guys). No doubt he was horribly dodged anyway though, by other contenders who if Burley wouldve beaten he couldve pushed for a title-shot, so it doesnt make him any less of an 'UNCROWNED CHAMP' to me, probably not true anyhow though

 

For that matter T, how long did it take for Ray Robinson or Jake LaMotta to get a title shot? Different reasons why not, I know, different forces at work holding those guys back, but who could deny they deserved a better shake at an earlier time?

 

You're quite right, LaMotta was somewhat of an uncrowned champ for a long time i believe. And a good point on Roinson aswell. Really was a lot of corruption in boxing back then i guess. Dark times for guys who wouldnt co-operate with the uglly side of the sport. Its getting really late her Chinx, gunna get 2 bed, been a good old discussion as always though!!

 

Sorry to bring religion into it, T, but God bless and get a good night's sleep. As for me, also a Pennsylvanian turned Californian, the night isn't yet underway. Touch base soon, Chinx.

 

I fancy Emile Griffith to outhustle Burley who could be outworked. While I feel Burley Could Hurt Griffith with the big right I Dont think he could finish him because his finishing abilty was one of his weaknesses Imo

 

I would never consider Griffith an aggressive fighter.He usually always mantained a proper distance and simply outjabbed his opponents.

not many fighters could outjab Griffith at Welter.It's difficult to imagine any schooling taking place here.