charley burley

Why not give some examples? Right now you're all talk.

 

Burley never beat Bivins first of all, and you missed out on Zivic and Angott for Ray's resume. Odd that you'd include iZivic among Burley's best wins but not Robinson's. Guys like Graziano, Mims, etc are also worthy of mention on Ray's.

That's just false.

Guys like Gavilan, LaMotta, Basilio, and Turpin would've all had chances against Burley, and I might've favored Gavilan come to think of it.

Those comparisons aren't fair, as you're comparing an old, past prime Robinson to a prime Burley, taking on green versions of the fighters you just mentioned, and losing both to Charles I might add.

You have a point about Burley's success against bigger men, but certainly not his overall resume.

 

Good read, thank you.

 

Is that even up for debate he fought by way the tougher competition BUT his losses to the bigger top dogs sadly exclude him from having quite the same great legacy SRR has

 

I agree to some extent. As much of his rating comes from his reputation (ie: people like Archie Moore and Eddie Futch calling him "the greatest fighter ever") as what he actually accomplished in the ring.

Don't get me wrong, he was a great fighter, but he was one of numerous great fighters in and around his weight class, and not necessarily the best of them.

For example, he was twice whupped by Ezzard Charles in fights he was heavily favored to win. I know people might say, "But that's Ezzard Charles!", but remember that Charles was still young and relatively inexperienced at that time, and had lost to Ken Overlin and Kid Tunero shorly before, and would be beaten bad by Lloyd Marshall and Jimmy Bivins shortly after (both of whom also beat Burley, BTW). If Burley was really the fighter so many people make him out to be, he really should've beaten Charles at this stage in their careers, or at the very least given a better account of himself.

People make much of his win over Archie Moore, but Moore was outright KO'd by Eddie Booker shortly before, and would be KO'd by Jimmy Bivins not too long after. Burley's win over Moore was certainly impressive, but not "out of this world" like people today make it out to be.

Robinson gets flack for supposedly turning down a chance to fight Burley. But nevermind that Robinson was still only a welterweight contender (not even the champion there yet) while Burley was already contending at middleweight. IMO, this criticism of Robinson better shows the kind of (somewhat unfair) expectations that were/are made of him, rather than Burley being given a "raw deal".


Personally, I think all the hubbub Burley gets could just as easily be given to Eddie Booker or Lloyd Marshall.