Chavez vs Taylor I stoppage

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DavidC77, Oct 10, 2019.


  1. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Active Member Full Member

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    Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere - I did search for this on the forum but couldn't find it.

    Admittedly, I've only seen the last round of this fight but, even if you leave the timing of the stoppage to one side, I still think Steele was wrong to stop the fight.

    He asks Taylor twice if he's OK but you've got to give the guy a chance to answer and he clearly doesn't!

    Look at the clip below, Steele stops the fight AS SOON AS he's finished asking Taylor a second time if he's OK.

    To get round the issue of a late stoppage - Taylor was not in danger of further punishment as Chavez did not have time to approach Taylor, let alone hit him again - I think it would be a good idea for referees to be provided with a watch that vibrates when there is 10 seconds left in the round.

    I don't know if something similar has been introduced but it's not that sophisticated a piece of technology and would be useful to have.
    But then again, there was the flashing light in the corner indicating the last few seconds of the round which is another reason why I thought Steele was wrong to stop the bout.

     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  2. christpuncher

    christpuncher Member Full Member

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    totally correct to stop the fight. Taylor stares off in to space over Steele's left shoulder and doesn't reply when asked whether he was ok. I think it was Duva who distracted Taylor? In any case, if you have a fighter who doesn't reply to you, and is staring off in to space, not even looking at you, after you've asked them twice if they're ok, also has had the **** beaten out of him for several rounds, what else can you do but stop the fight? Steele like he said is interested in the condition of the fighter, he's not the timekeeper.
     
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  3. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Member Full Member

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    Correct stoppage, if you cannot respond to the referee. Also, Taylor suffered many bone fractures on his face. Good Fight.
     
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  4. DJN16

    DJN16 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Really was an argument on both sides for it being stopped or carrying on.

    Taylor didn't respond to Steele when asked if he was alright on at least 2 occasions.

    There was 2 seconds left in the fight, where most would think he'd get to the bell and get the illustrious win on the cards where he was no doubt ahead.

    However.... He took a beating, pissed blood after the fight and was never the same fighter ever again. Sadly went on to become punch drunk.

    If you look at it from a black and white perspective Steele was right to stop the fight. Also if he allowed it to carry on and Taylor landed one one more concussive blow it could have been tragic.

    A very complex ending to a mega fight.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
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  5. 88Chris05

    88Chris05 Active Member Full Member

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    Will copy and paste what I wrote about this not too long ago....

    -----------------------------------------

    As for the stoppage (I should know better than to get drawn in to this one, but oh well) - I'd like to give a short and simple stance, but I can't. By the letter of the law, Steele was well within his rights to wave it off. There is certainly no serious evidence anyone can use to state that he stopped the fight for anything other than compassionate reasons.

    Nevertheless, background context leaves the possibility for some speculation. Did he seem to rush his inspection a little after asking Taylor if he was ok for the second time? He left barely a nanosecond between the end of the question and waving it off - although of course, you could argue the fact that he had to ask for a second time was proof enough that the fight needed stopping. But there were no instructions ("walk to me, raise your gloves" etc.) as you might normally expect in that situation. The ring corners featured lights which flashed when there was ten seconds or less remaining in a round, and one of these was right behind Taylor's head (and flashing) when Steele waved it off. Did that impact his judgement in any way? And as has already been mentioned, Taylor did seem at least a little distracted by Duva on the ring apron. The wobbly camera makes it hard to tell, but it's arguable that Taylor did give a small nod to Steele that he was ok when asked for the first time - the problem was that he was looking over Steele's shoulder to Duva. However, in Steele's defence, he couldn't have known that Duva was vying for Taylor's attention at the time.

    Combine all of that with the reputation Steele had back then of being King's lackey. Steele argued afterwards that he was taking the compassionate course and had the fighter's safety in mind - all well and good, Richard, but you never seemed to have quite the same concern for fighters who weren't managed by Don King. Steele had no qualms about sending Hearns, having only just scraped past the ten count, his gumshield hanging out his mouth and wobbling all over the place, back in to action against Barkley when it was clear he was a lamb to the slaughter; he could have stepped in a lot sooner when Rosario was getting brained by Chavez; he let Tyson get away with all sorts against a hapless Bruno in 1989 etc. Compare that to how quickly he jumped in to stop Ruddock when he was giving King's golden goose Tyson a testing night's work. There are a lot of inconsistencies in Steele's work as a referee, and almost invariably his compassionate nature only seemed to come to the fore when it suited King's most valuable assets.

    I'm undecided on the issue and probably always will be, but I tend to err slightly towards defending Steele's position and saying that the stoppage was legitimate. There are some niggling doubts, but nothing which would stand up against the letter of the law enough for me to call it an outright injustice. But I do think there are arguments to be made on both sides, and those on either side who completely discard any opposite take on it, or who act as if there's nothing to discuss about it, are deluding themselves a little.
     
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  6. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Steele was correct imo.His responsibilty is to the fighters and their safety he isn't their to function as a timekeeper.Taylor was looking off into space .
     
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  7. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Active Member Full Member

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    I understand that but why ask a boxer a question if you're not going to give him a chance to answer and instead immediately call the fight off the second you finish asking the question?
    How can he not notice a flashing red light right in front of him telling him there was a few seconds left?

    I hope Steele doesn't disregard red lights like that when he's driving.
     
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  8. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Active Member Full Member

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    Steele didn't give him a chance to respond.
     
  9. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Active Member Full Member

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    Steele didn't even give the guy the chance to answer him, he waved his arms immediately after asking him a second time if he was OK.
    Why ask him again if he won't give him even a second to respond?

    If he had allowed Taylor to continue, the fight would have ended without another punch landing because there was no time to do so and Taylor would have won.

    In fact, if he had given Taylor the chance to answer his second question then deciding to stop the fight may not even have come into it as the bell might have already sounded.
     
  10. Smokin Bert

    Smokin Bert Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How about watching the rest of the ****ing fight before making a post like this? Especially one that has probably been covered 50 times on this website.
     
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  11. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I agree with the stoppage bySteele. I think if Lou Duva was a decent manager he would have stopped the bout after the 11th. Meldrick was taking quite a bit of punishment. He was young and had a future.
    When you look at the grotesque mask of Taylor's face it had ringdeath written all over it. He had been getting the worst of it on the inside, blood pouring from his mouth, he even went down in the 11th because his legs were rubber.
    I could see a decent case for blaming Steele If he was doing a paint job on Chavez and Taylor wasn't getting caught so much. In other words if Julio just landed one right hand towards the end that caused a Knockdown. Like a isloated punch. We know that wasn't the case. Meldrick's condition was bad. Later it was revealed Taylor had a broken eye socket.
     
  12. Skins

    Skins Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's funny, but back when this happened it seemed the whole world thought it was a bad stoppage, now it is more like 50-50. Personally, I thought is was bad, still do. This was not some 4 round prelim fight, this was a fight for pound 4 pound glory and big money and Taylor deserved the chance to finish the 2 seconds left in the fight. And you are right, Steele stopped it a nano-second after asking if he was ok for the 2nd time. Didn't give him a chance to answer. Nowadays the ref would have played 20 questions and diddled around and the bell would have rung and the fight would have been over and Taylor would have got the victory
     
  13. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As a Taylor fan now and at the time...I was convinced it was a corrupt and unjust stoppage...the $100 I lost on this did not help in my evaluation.

    it still pains me to watch this, but the benefit of time and removal of emotion, causes me to see him not respond and that Steele made the appropriate decision.
     
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  14. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    All hell broke lose because 'smart' people lost money on the Taylor upset. But as mentioned Steele was not the timekeeper and with the eye socket and internal injury added to the poor response from Taylor after the knockdown, Steele made the right call.
     
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  15. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    As I said he isn't there to keep time.
     


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