Based on what? Those ballyhooed scrubs he beat? Who did Dempsey beat? Are you really going to put a guy who drew the color line as Number 1? Do realize the absurdity of that based on the complexion of the division for the almost 100 years following his reign. Then again, intellectual consistency is not a hallmark of the Classicist.
Ali in the 60s was a boxing Miracle imo. His hand and foot speed changed the game. He couldn't be beaten imo.
Extremely debatable, Frazier was an exceptional champion and Wladmir dominated his divison second to Joe Louis, Gene Tunney shouldn't be in the discussion in my opinion he's a nice name in the P4P sense but as the heavyweight GOAT? How can you make an argument for him on what basis? Without trying to draw offence I just don't understand he was barely a heavyweight and he beat a FADED Dempsey that's pretty much his peak in that divison.
George won the title twice, the first time by extraordinary means against a top 10 ATG...but he didn't hold it for very long or defend it often (full credit though, one of those two defenses was a complete obliteration of a prime Ken Norton, another ATG). He won the title again, at an amazing, record-breaking age. But didn't hold it too much longer, and didn't defend it against the top heavyweights of the day (Bowe, Lewis, Tua, Tyson, Holyfield, Mercer, and arguably Botha). He lost badly to Tommy Morrison, a fighter whose clobberer (Ray Mercer) was soundly defeated by...Larry Holmes. George lost the second title to a second-rater, Briggs, though to be completely fair I thought he won that fight. Briggs went on to have his head caved in by the guy who was probably the "real" champ of the time, Lewis. Holmes won the title against an ATG, held it for well over seven years, defended it 20 times mostly against top contenders (though it could be strongly argued the last two years he had a few too many green kids in there). Holmes completely dominated the division from 1978 to arguably 1984, six straight years. He went undefeated for nearly four dozen fights. He even came back and made more than respectable showings against champions Holyfield and McCall, the former being perhaps the greatest heavyweight champion who wasn't him, Ali, or Joe Louis. Though my favorite fighters are Holmes, Foreman, and Ali (in that order of love), to me the superiority is obvious.
Best heavyweight champ. 1. Louis - can't argue with 25 defences and 11 years as champ. 2. Marciano- Only champ to retire with a perfect record. 3. Ali- First 3 time heavie champ, 18 or 19 defences in the best era of heavyweight boxing. Best H2H heavyweight fighter. 1. Ali 2. Holmes 3. Tyson
I'd say Foremans showing against Holyfield was ALOT better personally, Larry had the better reign and longevity against inferior opponents George fought and lost his titile to the (in my oponion) greatest heavyweight boxer of all time Larry lost his to Micheal Spinks and avoided rematches with decent but not great boxers. George abolished Joe Frazier his best scalp and managed to capture the titile again at age 45 against a respectable but not great young champion. His loss against Tommy Morrison wasn't that bad truthfully at his advanced age be fair he put on a good showing as did Tommy, Briggs loss in my opinion was payment for a fight I'd rather forget of George's but still a good showing at 49! Briggs also went on to have a fine showing against Lennox displaying a savagery and ferciousness that abandoned him against George so it wasn't as if he was robbed against a nobody. Larry beat no one in condition to hold a candle to a prime Joe Fraizer and didn't even manage to reclaim the titile in his second campaign. Don't think I dislike Larry either Holmes is just beneath George for me I just don't believe Larry can be discussed without Foreman for reasons stated above.
The respect is mutual, I used to often I find my opinion swaying from one to the other but for me now George ranks above Larry indefinitely but it doesn't make your points invalid there is no clear GOAT it's objective and open diverse discussion keeps this forum alive. Love to you aswell my friend namaste.
I second this, Dempsey was epic so he deserves to be the goat. On a real note, I have Ali and Louis tied, the best competition vs the best dominance and consistency, I think they've accomplished just about the same in the sport, I can't pick one
I will agree with most that Ali is probably the best ever. What prevents me from saying with absolute certainty that he was the greatest of all time is the fact that he took so long to put away Wepner. Wepner almost went the distance. I would think that the greatest of all time would have put Wepner to sleep a lot sooner. I understand that Ali was past his prime but come on. Wepner was a bum.
