Chris Byrd v Primo Carnera

Jameel McCline did not achieve 10% of what Primo did. You might prefer him aesthetically but that’s like preferring a car that looks good but dosnt work.

 

McCline vs W Klitschko is an excellent example of veneer vs. function.

 

He didn't have the mob behind him orchestrating his career and fixing some of his fights either.

 

Primo was no less mobbed up than Sonny Liston.

If you throw out the dubious barn stormers from Primos record it still leaves a far more legitimate body of work than jameel mccline left behind!

Art Laskey, Walter Neusel, Ernie Schaff, Tommy Loughran, Jack Sharkey, King Levinsky, victorio Campolo, Jose Santa, Paulino Uzcudun...

By comparison McCline Is only 50-50 with Don McCorkindale.

 

Haye beats both at his peak. Chagaev loses to both on points. Byrd would beat primo in a dull fight. Chris Byrd was the type of guy who would have been great to see making his move to cruiserweight a lot earlier on in life. I think with a top conditioning coach he would have been a real top class cruiserweight. His punches would have had a bit more effect on top of him having good skills I think he could'e been a top 5 cruiser of all time

 

Any of Liston's fights fixed in his favour?
Neusel quit, Schaaf should not have been in the ring he was a sick man.Loughran was outweighed by over 80 lbs but never in trouble at any time., Sharkey beat him conclusively in their first fight dropping him along the way,the second fight will always have an asterisk beside it as far as I'm concerned.Levinsky was an in and outer.
Campolo was noted for his size, not his talent.Santa ditto. Uzcudun hadnt been ranked for several years when Carnera defended against him and he wasnt that special in his prime.

 

how do we know? Liston didn’t need his fights fixed and neither did Primo. If a guy feels like he has no chance and dumps the fight is it a fix? If a guy wants to salvage respect out of putting up zero resistance he can claim he threw the fight can’t he? Nobody said they threw fights with Sonny, but quite a few threw themselves down pretty darn fast just as they did with Louis, Tyson, Foreman and Marciano. It happens. The point is, did it happen in important fights? There were question marks with Some Carnera wins but still more than enough evidence in many more important fights where he was flat out good enough to win the way he did win.

Neusel took a pounding and quit. Sonny took a pounding and quit. Tyson took a pounding and quit. Willard took a pounding and quit. Sometimes it’s part of taking a pounding. Why take it away from the guy doing the pounding?

Schaff maybe shouldn’t have been in the ring. I wish he had not of died but these kind of tragedies can be like Russian roulette. On film against Primo Schaff fought very well and was a legit fighter going into that night.

and how much trouble did David Haye have losing to Klitschko? If the guy is good enough not to be in trouble why should that go against the guy who still beat him?

watching the two fights Carnera was much better second time. It happens. Sharkey was trying to take Carnera out even in the last round before Primo flattened him.

So was Nino Valdes. He makes a good name on everyone’s record dosnt he? Why not Levinsky?

They both won a lot of fights. They were both taken seriously and were well known. Proving he beat other Superheavyweights is important for Primos SHW legacy isn’t it?

we have been through this before. Paulino was still one of the best in the world.

 

Liston didn't need his fights fixed that is true but Carnera did ,otherwise Bombo Chavalier and Ace Clark would have beaten him!

No one present thought the Schaaf fight was legit it took Earnie's death to make them believe he was a sick man and had no business in there and excuse his terrible performance. A famous boxing writer whose name escapes me was ringside said as Schaaf was counted out, " the only way I 'll beleive this is if he dies".

You brought up Liston not me, he has no relevance to this thread but that never stops you does it?

 

I'll take Byrd on points. Carnera didn't hit particularly hard for his size nor was he exactly speedy. I think Byrd can avoid the majority of the incoming and pile up the points emphatically.

 

Byrd goofs him. Carnera didn't have the athletic stuff to impose his size or anything else on Chris. Different era, different level of athletes.

 

Byrd was no Loughran, he was 6'2" 212lbs and he would be prime ,he embarrasses Carnera.

 

Byrd struggled against super heavyweights, including ones that were not the best or brightest.

I imagine that he would probably lose to Carnera, bu the idea that he would somehow clown him is ridiculous!

 

Vitali would become a much better boxer, and he hurt his shoulder in the fight. Byrd was at his peak when they fought.

While there is no doubt Byrd is very skilled, Carnera had an unusually good stamina and punch output for such a large man.

Carnera also had a lot of heart. While Carnera did not take a good punch, Byrd did not have enough power to deter him.

Carnera's defense was below average, Byrd could land and make him, miss, but would he land enough to win the majority of the rounds? That is my question.

I see a close split decision type of fight with Byrd winning a close one on points.

 

How did Byrd fare against world class super heavyweights?

What have we actually got to work with here?

Two losses against Wlad.

A win over Vitally (make what you will of that).

A draw against a past prime Golotta.

A controversial SD over McCline.

This is the only evidence from the real physical world, that you have to make your prediction based upon!

 

He struggled against super heavies much better than Carnera and for how many of those fights was he prime?