chuvalo vs tunney.......

mm ok , and yes i think that chuvalo would have been a hard rival for dempsey, because chuvalo was stronger,25 pounds heavier, he was an animal, he was a hard puncher and he had better chin. so it would not be easy for dempsey. chuvalo was no willard. and dempsey was not foreman or frazier.

 

We saw this fight against Heeney ... George gets shut out ... his only shot is a ref that allows a ton of rough stuff and a tiny ring ..

 

I think Heeney was easily on par with Chuvalo who is entirely overrated. Yes Chuvalo fought in a great era but he was largely uncompetetive in that era other than being able to take a beating standing up. Chuvalos size, and chin dont even come into the equation for two reasons: 1. This isnt wrestling, and 2. Tunney wasnt a guy who went out looking for the KO. Chuvalo would come out for the first couple of rounds looking to see if Tunney would fight back and then once Tunney started bouncing punches off of Chuvalos cranium without return Chuvalo would go into his patented method of walking forward behind a high guard and doing little else. Size didnt seem to stop Jimmy Ellis and Floyd Patterson both of whom beat Chuvalo when they were past their primes and naturally smaller even than Tunney. It also didnt stop Howard King, Pat McMurtry, or Corletti, all of whom were much smaller than Chuvalo and about the same size as Tunney. Even Frazier who beat the **** out of Chuvalo was naturally a smaller HW and smaller than Chuvalo. It didnt stop him from kicking the stuffing out of the Canadian.

 

atsch

 

Very much my view on Chuvalo - yeah great era - but so were many other eras too?? Chuvalo has become a product of the 70's super fights era bull - if anyone cares to watch film of the first clay-Chuvalo match with Don Dunphy commentating - Don pretty much refers to Chuvalo as a journeyman a trialhorse - these days he is used as an example of the depth of the era for gods sake!!?? Back the day he wasn't seen as anything other than a journeyman fighter - his losses to the likes of Joe Erskine bare that out - in reality Erskine was considered a bit of a laughing stock even in his own back yard?? No, Chuvalo has become wildly overused as some kind of barometer of depth of contenders for the era - even guys like Lyle and Norton were completely unknowns at the time - listen to the commentaries - the commentators - especially in the case of Norton didn't know anything abouth the guy - he'd litterally come from nowhere?? Youknow, some really great fights occurred etc but when it gets to the point where guys like Chuvalo are now being considered as worthy threats to some of the legends of the entire history of the sport then things have really become a joke

 

Chuvalo can't keep up with Tunney. His strength and chin won't help him here imo. Tunney is too fast and mobile for Chuvalo

 

I agree. growing up watching boxing in the late 70s and 80s Chuvalo was a footnote. He was a guy who was considered a Joe Grimm type of fighter who somehow continued to get high profile fights and then failed, usually miserably. Somehow in the last 10 years his reputation has shot way up and I fail to see why. The guy was nothing special. He was slow as hell, his power is drastically overrated, and he couldnt box for ****. Personally I even think his chin is overrated for the simple fact that when he was losing he would just shut down and not take chances, walking straight in behind a high guard. Its like saying Josh Clottey has a great chin. Yeah, he wasnt knocked out by the big punchers he faced but when he got behind in the fight he didnt exactly go for broke like a lot of other fighters who would have been stopped. He was wobbled more than once in his career and I will maintain until my dying day that he was dropped twice by Bonavena. I have two versions of that fight and the first knockdown was clearly ruled incorrectly with Chuvalo touching his glove to the canvas immediately after a punch. The second was more questionable but you could have easily ruled it KD. In his fights with Frazier and Foreman you cant tell me he wouldnt have been stopped had he not absorbed a one sided beating in such short order that the ref stopped the Foreman fight and Chuvalo literally turned his back and quit against Frazier. Suddenly we are wondering how he would have done against a 191 pound Tunney??? Tunney would have made him look as stupid as every other great fighter Chuvalo faced.

 

Absolutely 100% Bang On in my view Klomp - I commend you for a brilliant readdressing of reality - we are sorely in need of much more of this - people need to get real - it's no disgrace to see it exactly as it was in reality and that's what people need to do - it does a great real more disservice to the guys from the era to hype it all our of reality into something it really wasn't - it was a good enough era without all the bull**** about Chuvalo would have been world champ in another era/Jerry Quarry would've been champ in another era/Ron Lyle woulda been champ in another era - I've even heard people talk-up Ernie Terrell in recent times in the same way - I'm sorry but Terrell was a very very average and completely unimaginative type of fighter?!! It's so unnecersary turning all these guys into something they weren't - yeah admire and respect them 200% for what they were - but don't embarrass their memory by talking them up way beyond what is real

 

the facts are that these 3 guys would fight to death or life with your little hero marciano, and it is a fact. (especially lyle). ROCKY WOUD NOT BE EVEN TOP 4. IN THE 60s or 70s. liston,ali,frazier,foreman would beat him any day of the week.

 

Absloutely spot on.

 

this ******ed rockysplit is a hater of any fighter who is not his boyfriend rocky marciano.(who would fight wars against simple contenders from the golden era like quarry,chuvalo o rlyle).He is interested in to give few credit to the golden era. because his boyfriend rocky was not from this era, he fought in a ****ing weak era.. any way he think that it would be close but marciano would ko superman late. what a joke this kid.

 

You're a little extreme on Chuvalo.

Whose chin was better ?

He was limited but always game, had a tremendous heart and did give many greats of the era a tough night.

He did stop Quarry, whatever the b.s. He engaged a still extremely good Patterson in the fight of the year losing an extremely competitive decision. He was very comprtitive against the very tough Bonavena. He lost a lopsided decision on a rounds basis to a prime Ali but put up a terrific fight. Ali took more punishment from Chuvalo than he did in any pre-exile bout. As far as turning his back against a prime Frazier what do you expect ? His eye socket was fractured. Any other fighter would have been on his ass against Frazier and Foreman. His chin was as good as any fighter that ever lived. If he did go down or not against Bonavena is extremely debatable as I have the same tapes but either way irrevelant as both were off balance , timing push/trip sort of KDs if anything at all ...

 

absolutely

 

Chuvalo should be credited for the ko of Quarry, but I suspect that a rematch would have been a revenge fight for Quarry with a very different result. Quarry was on his way to winning their bout before a most uncharacteristically sloppy, unattentive moment for jerry changed all of that. It wouldn't have happened again and I think Quarry would have done a Lyle type boxing number on him to vindicate himself. I'm at loss for why that rematch never happened. It would have been better for Jerry's career if he had avanged that loss to Chuvalo.

 

Chuvalo might get overrated, but he hardly deserves this kind of venomous criticism.

He never ever went into a "shell" out of all the fights I've seen of him. Comparing him to a Joshua Clottey is ridiculous. The man fought his heart out each time even if he came up short. Yes, he did "quit" against Frazier after getting his eye orbital broken with a Frazier left hook. Chuvalo was simply too slow to catch up with the smaller, faster opponents that he fought. He would have a better chance against a Dempsey who came right at him than against a Gene Tunney, even though he most likely loses to both.

I also don't think Bonavena knocked him down, and even then touching the canvas for less than a second while getting punched and pushed hardly takes away from his claim of having never been knocked down.