Nice to read your posts again Doug.ie I am rereading the bio of Stanley Ketchel by Nat Fleischer printed in the 1940s in which he quotes Billy Roche a noted referee and promoter who saw 3 of the Ketchel and Joe Thomas slugfests and wrote that in all his long career Billy roche never saw a greater fight or a greater middleweight than the Michigan Assassin. Ketchel was so "possessed" that he ran away from home at the tender age of TWELVE seeking to be a cwboy and ended up after several years in Montana where he became a bouncer throwing out drunken cowboys from the bar... There was no one tougher than Ketchel Billy Roche always proclaimed. Too bad there is but 2 films of him against the rugged HOF Billy Papke and the "fight" with the 40 pound heavier Galveston Giant Jack Johnson...What about the 49 fighters Ketchel flattened in his shortened career ? cheers D...