CLASSIC FIGHT NIGHT THREAD:Wilder-Fury II

Telegraph a big right but then turn it into a relatively soft arm punch to load up for a left haymaker instead?

 

What exactly do you mean by "big shoulder snap punches"? (I ask because you've mentioned "shoulder snap" a bunch lately but I think I may have a different understanding of the term).

 

I like both fighters a lot but I'm inclined to agree. Golovkin needs to seriously work on his defense before he gets in with a 175-lber with lights out power.

 

That was nice. Ward and Hagler would have whipped in left hooks on the follow up.

 

Ward and especially Hopkins probably would have come in behind much shorter punches though.

 

I disagree, especially if we're talking about hardcore haters which there is a internet fueled contingent. Perhaps comma my perception is clouded by virtue of being exposed to it in the Forum environment. Golovkin did pretty well against a top fighter who appeared to have made the weight jump from a division that he appears to have outgrown successfully. Yeah there's a pretty solid contingent which gives him no credit whatsoever.

 

GGG swipes Brooks right arm out of the way, which clears room for his left hook. It didn't work because Brook dodged the hook. It takes a lot of power to control the other guys arms like that.

Joe Louis does this to Braddock to win the belt, but he does it with the overhand right, using his left hook to move Jims arm out of the way. Unlike Golovkin, Joe succeeded with that move.

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Shoulder snap punching is a technique you develop that lets you generate more power in your punches than other traditional forms.

It's using your shoulder to essentially whip your punch like a strong slingshot. If you do it in shadowboxing, it can shake your whole body. Some people have more developed shoulder snapping punches than others. Some are more dynamic in what they can do with it than others.

Here is a really good example of Golovkin using the shoulder snap:
https://streamable.com/fsm5

In this clip, notice he's not twisting his hips too much. He's not turning his body. And he's not pushing off the ground all that hard either. He's getting the power from the shoulder snap.

Most modern boxers don't have the shoulder snap, and are at a serious disadvantage against someone like Golovkin.

 

The bigger question is... can Dino make a post without referencing Wlad?

He doth protest a bit too much?

Your psychoanalysis, please

 

Ok. You seem to be using the term more narrowly than I've seen in the past but I get what you're referring to now. I don't think of the technique that you have in mind as much of a top weapon though, except for a small number of fighters (usually relatively lanky but lean-muscled guys) who have the body mechanics to generate top force that way. Most guys are much better off pushing through the ground and keeping their hooks tighter with less pronounced snap, imo.

PS - When you say that modern boxers don't have it, are you suggesting that it was significantly more popular/prominent in past eras?

 

Well to be clear, the Golovkin example is niche. I used that specific clip, because the shoulder snap was isolated, which made it a good example to show.

You can, however, combine shoulder snap punching to an array of punch styles. Every elite puncher in boxing history had it, from "slow" sluggers like Foreman, to fast punchers like Tyson.

Here, Tyson alludes to his punching style being a combination of speed combos, and the shoulder snap.

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Yes. Although today, it is starting to change. We are just exiting an era of boxing dominated by SHW brothers who had a long range arm punching style. And Mayweather and Pacquaio, who are also mainly arm punchers.

Golovkin is changing that. He will influence the next generation to take power punching seriously again. Deontay Wilder is also a heavy shoulder snap puncher. He's the first true SHW puncher. I think he is the best around today, and will knock out Joshua, Klitschko and Fury.

Waves come and go. Power punching has been hiding from boxing for the past few decades, and is starting to emerge again. And it's going to help boxings popularity rise again. Once GGG and Canelo get in the ring, people will remember why boxing is the greatest sport there is.

 

This man is dangerous.
https://streamable.com/vmzi

 

Interesting theory re: the waves. I think that boxers mostly just fight to their strengths and physical gifts in ways that allow them to avoid taking unnecessary punishment. Golovkin seems to be a throwback exception in that he at times eats punches that most other elite fighters manage to avoid. I don't really see that style catching on in the U.S.

Wilder has freakish power for sure but I don't think that it has much to do with the kind of shoulder snapping you're referring to (with the elastic sling shot effect). I'll have to go back and watch some of his highlights but I thought of him as doing most of his damage with very standard straight punches and I've seen him club people with little snap at all. I'm surprised that you draw the contrast between him and Pacquiao, as Wilder's money shot kind of reminds me of Pacquiao's vintage straight lefts.

 

The sling shot effect refers to the motion of the shoulder, rather than the actual effect of the punch. Foreman threw clubbing punches, but also used the shoulder snap. You would think that if pushing off the ground gives you the most power, then power punching should be more accessible to your average boxer. But it isn't. It's more nuanced than that. It takes years to figure out how to shoulder snap, and it takes even more years to incorporate it into a boxing style. The nature of this hard to access skill can cause wide gaps in how good boxers are.

Pacquaio was a great arm puncher with speed in both fists, where he would step in an out throwing 6-12 punch combos. His Hatton KO was more of his body positioning and timing, and theres no shoulder snap. Manny often hand to land lots of combos and punches to beat his opponents.


As for Wilder, it takes a great puncher to do this.
https://streamable.com/vmzi
He gets a running starts, and unloads the overhand that forces his opponent to the ground with it's force while stalking forward. To control an opponents body like that with one punch is rare. Usually, you can snap an opponents head back, but to force their whole body in a certain direction takes real power.

Very similar to this punch by Louis
https://streamable.com/x6ap
But Wilder's landed cleaner in this instance. Louis lands with the front of his fist, while Wilder gets him square with the knuckles.

Edit: And here is Robinsons version of the punch, which is perfect. https://streamable.com/a386

 

But Wilder is a latecomer to the sport and not known as having anything that approaches nuanced skills. Some people are blessed with body mechanics that enable them to generate way more power than most other fighters. You can improve your power with practice but I disagree that having truly freakish power is a matter of learning how to sling one's shoulder the proper way.