CLASSIC FIGHT NIGHT THREAD:Wilder-Fury II

I agree that the heavyweight champions from the past were more highly skilled than todays heavyweights, it was more entertaining to watch and they were more active than they are now. However, we are talking about a totally different weight class now but one that has the same name. 'Heavyweight champion of the world' has a ring to it which is why people yearn for the days of great heavyweights - unfortunately the size of todays heavyweights makes for a different style of boxing. David Haye by no means would ever have been a great heavyweight champ in any era - but he was a great cruiserweight champ and he couldn't get near Wlad in his fight. The heavyweight champs of the past would be mainly in the cruiserweight division today or be struggling against opponents with bigger physical advantages.

The height and reach differences would make it very difficult for any heavyweight champ of the past in todays era. I guess someone like Ali at his peak would be able to outpoint his way to becoming champ as he was so fast and his timing was superb and he had a great chin. However, I dont see 200lb champions of the past who based their success on KOs doing well at all in todays division. Their power would be negated as they would have to work much harder to get through any clean punches and their punches would be less powerful against a heavier opponent. This is why people who move up the divisions at a lower weight class often ( but not always) have a worse KO record the higher in weight they go.

 

I'm not doing anything.
I'm saying leave it the division as it is.
You mentioned Muhammad Ali and Deontay Wilder in the same post before I even got round the questioning specifics.
If the best single HW is always going to be 6'6 or more and 250 pounds, so be it, I don't think that means we should disqualify men the size of Ali and Holmes. Which is what you seem to be arguing for.

Povetkin is 6'2, far shorter than your "Vitali" example earlier.
He also has a normal/modest reach for his height.

Teper fits the bill of the fighter who doesn't look like he's trained a day for the fight, soft and flabby at 250, he's probably a fat cruiserweight.

Wilder weighed 219 when he won the title, kind of lanky. Maybe he's "not traditional" size, he's perhaps like a muscular Gerry C00ney.

There's really not an awful lot in it when we're talking about 6'3 and 6'4, and 230 pounds.
George Foreman was that size, and he looked immense and powerful and strong too. But I'm sure you'd put him in the canon of the 'traditional heavyweights.'

Haye did nothing to impress me.
But he was considered one of the more qualified of Wlad's challengers, as was Ibragimov, another modestly-sized HW.
Haye also beat Valuev, who you just credited as a super-heavyweight with a win over Holyfield.

 

Let's not forget that guys like Gerry C00ney were probably naturally the same size as a modern superheavyweight but because he fought in 1980 he trained like a boxer and did not record the kind of weight he might do now.

Hmm, boxing training. I'd like to know how heavy these superheavyweights would actually be under traditional boxing training.


If a guy as big as C00ney could make 224 and make "heavyweight" the creation of super heavyweight might not rule out anybody.

Remember Lennox Lewis and Bowe both got under 225.

Like I say, it is not creating a new division, just changing the name of cruiserweight and adding a few pounds. The way championship fighters cheat the scales it would not prevent even a 230 guy make "heavyweight".

 

Leave it as it is then. the 6'2", 215 lbs heavy will have to be contempt to winning state titles.

 

Exactly

The idea that Heavyweights will somehow be barred from ever fighting at Super Heavyweight doesnt apply either. A Heavyweight champion with a revised weight class will have the option to move up to Super Heavyweight if they chose to just as a middleweight has the option to move up to Super Middleweight

There are no real negatives to changing the weight class of Cruiserweight and changing its name to heavyweight.

 

This seems a bit outrageous. A comparatively modern heavyweight like say Pinklon Thomas languishing at state title level is an outrage.

 

Then it would be up to him to beat the Klitscko's, Fury's, and Wilder's of the world.. If he is capable of doing so then all the more power to him..

 

The idea for a Superheavy pro division first came about when Carnera beat Schaaf and Schaaf subsequently died .It was a nonsense then and is now.

 

It's not fair because he would be forced to gain weight and take on a body building programme. Develop a game plan against heavier foes who will climb all over him.

At one time the gloves favored the lighter faster man. This has not the case for many years. Since about the time larger men became competative among elite heavyweights. With larger gloves the target becomes smaller. Cleaner punching that used to favour the faster technician becomes dramatically reduced. Then there is the shorter championship distance. Nothing favours mid sized classic heavyweights. They are in limbo.

A giant was restricted to the same training as everyone else and never got quite so big. Too much of a typical superheavyweight game plan is about being big. It's about always having an advantage instead of "May the best man win".

 

That statement is nonsense. Since the early 1990's super heavies have owned the top spot in almost every year!

Bowe, Lewis, Klitschko, and Klitschko. Okay--a blown up Holyfield did own the title for a while, but he's 1-2 vs Bowe, and should have been 0-2 vs Lewis. While Lewis did lose his lineal title to Rahman, and McCall, these were pretty big guys too in terms of weight and reach

If Wlad has lost his fire, his successor is Fury, another super heavyweight.

Since the 1990 25 years have passed...The 200-215 pound champion is a rarity. Get used to it.

 

Explain that to unforgiven. He thinks that if we create a super heavyweight division that traditional heavys will be "disqualified." Personally I don't see anything wrong with giving the 6'3",215 lbs guys BACK their weight class and moving the freaks onto different pastures.. If a man the size of Pinklon Thomas wants to move up to fight the big Shlt heads then that's his perogative.

 

Because there were so few then. Now with changes in training, shorter distance and a different pace fighters can be as big as they like. A lot has changed. Too much I think.

 

I dont know who has the power to change weight classes ( Im guessing the governing WBC, WBA, IBF etc organisations)

I honestly dont think those with the power to change the weight class at heavyweight have even considered the idea. The heavyweight division has always been a class without limit but now too much has changed at heavyweight to justify calling it heavyweight as it is a different weight class to what is used to be.

Call it Super Heavyweight and if a great Super Heavyweight such as Anthony Joshua becomes a star then so be it.

Holyfield was a once in a generation athlete and could bridge the gap between Cruiser and Heavyweight - but he had less of a bridge to close than he would now- and even then he still struggled against Bowe and Lewis and beat them 1 in 5 fights.

 

Yep. If Wlad is gone, it will be fragmented for years. I do not think Fury will seek the best, and I can see him dropping a belt or two or losing in the next three years.