CLASSIC FIGHT NIGHT THREAD:Wilder-Fury II

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Nov 15, 2014.


Page 90 of 127
  1. ticar

    ticar Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    no, bowe demolished him, and lewis ran yes, but again you forgot the chin and the heart evander had, probably the toughest heavyweight
     
    ticar, Dec 1, 2015
    ticar, Dec 1, 2015
    #1336
  2. Boxing125

    Boxing125 Active Member Full Member

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    I dont think the Heavyweight division is that bad at the moment it certainly now looks more exciting than it has done since Lennox Lewis retired.

    With Wladimir Klitschko dethroned and assuming a win for Fury in a re-match I think we will start to see Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder and Anthony Joshua match ups in the next few years which could result in some entertaining bouts.
     
    Boxing125, Dec 1, 2015
    Boxing125, Dec 1, 2015
    #1337
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    If Tyson was around as he was I agree.

    But Tyson turning pro among jumbo Oafs proberbly would not wind up being so good a fighter. He would stick on a lot of weight or fight forever as a cruiser and not make the impression he deserves.
     
    choklab, Dec 1, 2015
    choklab, Dec 1, 2015
    #1338
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Nah, it's doom. Lots of sloppy fights in store.

    We will hunger for the real heavyweight division.
     
    choklab, Dec 1, 2015
    choklab, Dec 1, 2015
    #1339
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You have no basis on which to make that conclusion, it is pure conjecture on your part , and from left field as far as I can see.
     
    mcvey, Dec 1, 2015
    mcvey, Dec 1, 2015
    #1340
  6. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    true
     
    Bummy Davis, Dec 1, 2015
    Bummy Davis, Dec 1, 2015
    #1341
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I rate Holyfield very highly. Top 5 HW actually. It just further illustrates my point though so thanks.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 1, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 1, 2015
    #1342
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    OK; that's fine. People see what they want to see all the time. The science says the opposite as far as I'm aware.

    Incidently, the records tend to say the opposite, too. Dan Henderson is perhaps the greatest puncher in MMA history - 15 KO's versus 14 decisions. This is a little inflated, but still, compare it to Rocky Marciano, say - to whom he is often compared.


    Compared to who? To you? It is blatantly obvious that you haven't done any, as it was the last time we talked about this. Did you really say "Twice the impact."

    Tell you what - use your research to support your position in refute of this -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY7r-DwtjD8

    It doesn't quite reflect the figures I discussed - it's way worse for your position.

    What's best for you is to watch it all. If you can't be bothered, just watch the last minute.

    The question as it is dealt with in this video is "does more padding mean more protection for fighters (From punchers)"?

    370k of force via bare knuckle.
    295K for the MMA glove, which is has just 2cm of padding.
    291K for the just boxing glove, which has 6cm of padding.

    Now, for anyone reading this, remember that choklab isn't comparing MMA gloves to boxing gloves - he's comparing smaller boxing gloves to larger boxing gloves while simultaneously insisting that the smaller man has an advantage with the smaller gloves.

    So the difference by this test is almost nothing, and the glove choklab is talking about is bigger anyway. The difference between these much more extremely opposed gloves was described in the video as "hair splitting."

    Second to this, the size of the glove is basically proven as a none factor in limiting damage per square [whatever]. It is the size of the glove's padding that is the determining factor. From a study done by the life sciences department at the University of Japan, which included both padded gloves and unpadded gloves with artificially introduced weight:

    "The peak impact forces of the larger mass gloves with no added weight tended to be lower than the smaller ones. It suggested that the peak impact forces of the gloves with no added weight depend on the cushioning rather than the mass of the gloves...the difference in cushioning rather than mass of the glove would affect the magnitude of the peak impact force."

    Between them, these two studies indicate that the weight of the glove has little if any affect on power punching but that the padding has an impact - and that the impact of differences in padding is tiny, even at extremes.

    But yeah, let's hear all about your research.
     
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    #1343
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    A lot of things gets parroted without even a cursory look at stats or research so it's no great deal.

    I showed th average weight of the top ten is identical to 20 years ago but it still isn't enough for some people.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 1, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 1, 2015
    #1344
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    What has any of that got to do with my point that it's harder to land a clean shot when the target is made smaller? before you try and trip me up about smaller targets I'm talking about the shield effect created by larger gloves being used defensively.

    When it's harder for both men to land cleanly it favours the harder puncher. he can make an impression without landing quite so clean because it's hard when ever he hits. He needs less precision. As you say yourself bigger guys hit harder so this indeed proves that you accept this. Big gloves make it hard for everyone to land as clean. A guy lacking power needs a lot more precision.

    A guy with a better work rate in theory throws more punches. Bigger men are stronger but smaller guys can have more pace. A smaller fellow needs to land cleanly as many times He can before he gets tired. If it's harder to land cleanly what chance does he have? He gets tired before he can land cleanly often enough. With a smaller glove he lands cleaner. Hence, Billy Conn versus Louis.

    Work rate versus size stopped being fair once precision was taken out of the equation.
     
    choklab, Dec 1, 2015
    choklab, Dec 1, 2015
    #1345
  11. N_ N___

    N_ N___ Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It was a great post. I blindly was assuming today's top ten was the biggest ever. It may actually be closer to a flat line for the last 20 years
     
    N_ N___, Dec 1, 2015
    N_ N___, Dec 1, 2015
    #1346
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    :good
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 1, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 1, 2015
    #1347
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Nothing. It has to do with this point:

    But if you are withdrawing your oft stated belief that smaller gloves make a big difference in punching power, i'm all ears?

    Is that what you are staying?
     
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    #1348
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Ok so you accept its harder to land a clean shot with bigger gloves?

    If it's proven that MMA gloves have only neglegabley greater impact from modern competition boxing gloves so be it. This won't mean they are equally potent since the smaller glove finds the target more cleanly.

    Trying to trip me up on "twice the impact" is rather petty. Perhaps I should have said "twice the effect". There's no doubting the glove that lands cleaner (even if the impact is no greater) is more effective since it finds a smaller target more accurately.

    So yes, I stand by smaller gloves making a bigger difference... and I have explained it.
     
    choklab, Dec 1, 2015
    choklab, Dec 1, 2015
    #1349
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes. I've never disputed it. I accepted it already a while back in this thread.

    Having answered your question directly with the word "yes", I would appreciate the same treatment:

    Are you conceding that smaller gloves do not deliver an impact that is of great difference?

    It's petty to respond to a claim you've made multipile times that is incorrect with information correcting? :lol: ok

    The points isn't the "Twice the impact". The point is, you have been consistent about claiming that smaller gloves result in harder punchers. What i am showing is that this is not the case so it matters.
     
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    #1350
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