CLASSIC FIGHT NIGHT THREAD:Wilder-Fury II

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Nov 15, 2014.


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  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I hope so. Let's see him do ten rounds first though. I remember Micheal Grant.
     
    choklab, Dec 2, 2015
    choklab, Dec 2, 2015
    #1381
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    This is my position, yes. Frankly, yours seems to be the complete opposite.

    Yes; landing more punches than your opponent is inarguably advantageous. And you find me pedantic?

    But he's also going to be getting hit more by a bigger man wearing smaller gloves. Why is it an advantage for a smaller man to be in a fight where it is easier for a bigger man to hit him?

    Of course, the truth is, it will favour CERTAIN smaller men over CERTAIN bigger men just how it will favour CERTAIN bigger men over CERTAIN smaller men. How this pans out is in the cut of styles, power, speed, engine, generalship, condition, wider ruleset, and etc etc etc.

    Claiming an advantage for men with smaller gloves is unproven at best, by your arguments, and probably more akin to Marciano-fuelled fantasy.

    Once again, you are speaking in lazy generalisations: allow me to reply in kind.

    Smaller men need to avoid being hit when they are "out-weight-classed" above all other things. Bigger gloves help them.

    These "facts" are no more or less debatable than the "Facts" you offer up. The difference is that i am not drawing any hard conclusions from them.

    :lol: so you're really going for it with this? The above legitigately backs you to claim that smaller gloves are "Twice as affective"? That's absurd.

    What's the connect percentage for "clean punches" in smaller v bigger gloves? Anything? Any actual evidence to actually support the suposition that boxers were 100% more affective with small gloves or is this just more fantasy?


    For Pete's sake!

    1 - To protect the hand.

    2 - To establish a sparring mentality

    3 - To allowed the sparring partner to better protect himself.

    4 - To protect the fighters from brain damage (almost totally debunked now)

    5 - To reduce damage, the kind of thing you love to quote in isolation. But the fact is that 16oz gloves may afford much greater protection for the hit fighter. I've no idea, and you certainly have no idea. All i know is that the difference between MMA gloves and Boxing gloves is almost negligible, and that the difference between the two types of gloves you are talking about are almost certainly even smaller.

    What are you talking about? What are you defining as "damage"?

    :rofl:rofl

    So it's theory versus practice that we agree upon this point (For the fifth time...)? This is obvious - true, even something this obvious SHOULD be subject to some form of testing and more than that, the degree of difference it makes should be rigorously before any meaningful conclusions are drawn.
     
    McGrain, Dec 2, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 2, 2015
    #1382
  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I was complimenting the part about the negative effects of holding. Didn't play a huge role in Wlad/Fury but could have become a factor, the way that Wlad was holding down on Fury's neck/head whenever he came in low.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Dec 2, 2015
    mrkoolkevin, Dec 2, 2015
    #1383
  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Wlad was reluctant to expose himself to return fire against a bigger man who could actually punch him in the face while he was too far away for Wlad to grab and hold.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Dec 2, 2015
    mrkoolkevin, Dec 2, 2015
    #1384
  5. ribtickler68

    ribtickler68 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Excessive holding enabled Vlad to beat Povetkin(Vlad warranted disqualification) and Khan to beat Maidana. Referees should crack down on it like any other infringement of the rules, but rarely do.
     
    ribtickler68, Dec 2, 2015
    ribtickler68, Dec 2, 2015
    #1385
  6. ribtickler68

    ribtickler68 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Vlad was equally reticent when facing Haye, for different reasons. For all the pre-fight talk, neither fighter really delivered. I don't think Vlad is a real "fighter" as such; he hasn't got that ability to s**** and s****e when things don't go his way in a fight. I realize he is getting old, but I think he has always been one dimensional. I think Lennox Lewis would have hammered him, and quite a few others would, too.
     
    ribtickler68, Dec 2, 2015
    ribtickler68, Dec 2, 2015
    #1386
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Because if he's good enough (and I accept its a big "if". he's already disadvantaged after all), then he can outland the big man enough clean blows before he gets tired and hit too many times himself. It's that simple.
     
    choklab, Dec 2, 2015
    choklab, Dec 2, 2015
    #1387
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Even this simple statement is untrue.

    ONE punch can make the difference.

    A punch that is easier for the bigger man to land with the smaller gloves.

    But, we've reached the point where you are avoiding most of the questions asked of you so i guess that's that.
     
    McGrain, Dec 2, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 2, 2015
    #1388
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The historical fight that I find myself comparing this match to, is Johnson Willard incidentally.

    In both cases you had a dominant if ageing champion, who had been around for many years, who was regarded as being almost invincible.

    In both cases the reigning champion had gained peoples respect, to the extent that the top contenders were either avoiding the fight, or not seriously trying to win against him.

    In both cases the contender who finally finished them, was not necessarily the best contender available, but more the contender who would genuinely commit to beating them.
     
    janitor, Dec 2, 2015
    janitor, Dec 2, 2015
    #1389
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Ok let's all stop beating around the bush here.

    Choklab, if Wladimir was born in the 1920's do you think he would have defeated Marciano and become the HW champion under the rule set of the era?
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 2, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 2, 2015
    #1390
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I wasn't referring to your posts KK.
     
    mcvey, Dec 2, 2015
    mcvey, Dec 2, 2015
    #1391
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He's been gunshy for years,imo.
     
    mcvey, Dec 2, 2015
    mcvey, Dec 2, 2015
    #1392
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Of course it's easier for the big man to land! But at least the smaller guy has a chance to make an impression with fewer punches. He still has to be twice as good, land twice as much but at least if he can then he has a chance with that extra bit of precision that the small glove provides.



    Take precision away from a little guy he has nothing. Precision gives him something.

    Sure precision helps the big guy too but he has so many advantages anyway.

    And I have answered all your questions.

    a clean punch to the jaw is more effective than a glancing blow. More glancing blows are likely with bigger gloves. The target is smaller.

    Are you saying a glancing blow from a big guy still can't hurt the little man?

    This is a question from me that you ignored.
     
    choklab, Dec 2, 2015
    choklab, Dec 2, 2015
    #1393
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Do you?
     
    choklab, Dec 2, 2015
    choklab, Dec 2, 2015
    #1394
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Of course not.

    Wlad might just kill Rocky in the round.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 2, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 2, 2015
    #1395
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