Classic Forum Chat: Size isn't the only factor.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Sep 25, 2021.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Spinks also was the only major guy at the time with the physical training sorcery, courtesy of Shilstone. It's not an advantage that lasted, once bigger men started learning the same trick.
     
  2. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Its a lost cause with this guy .. he is right there with Rasta ghouly , just saying .. have fun ,,, lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  3. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Bowe outside the top 20 ?!?? :eek::eek::eek:
    Are you saying he doesn't deserve to be top 20 on a HW list ?! :dunno:dunno:dunno
     
  4. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Same question for you: Bowe is not in your top 20 HWs of all time ?! :eek::dunno:confused:
     
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  5. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I thought I'd made my point clear, but obviously not.

    Since Wlad beat Byrd, the division has been dominated by SHW fighters.

    Haye and Adamek have had some success but both lost against a guy who was an elite level SHW. Both looked really uncompetitive in their losses.

    It looked like the division would become too big for greats of yesteryear to compete, Usyk proved that too big isn't enough and still isn't enough.

    So for me, the realisation is that if Teo fighters are matched up, the argument shouldn't be about size. SHW fighters can't just cut through lighter opponents with ease.
     
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  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    OK so basically you agree that we shouldn't just write off past HW greats as being too small.

    In which case I agree with you.
     
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  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yet he beat Holmes and Cooney despite being an underdog.

    He just ran into Tyson.
     
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  9. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Some of them for sure. He lost to Norton and Frazier when still not far removed from his prime. I think there are cruiserweights that absolutely have a chance of beating him though I don't know if they should be favored. Dismissing their chances seems like it is driven by nostalgia.

    I think the argument I made though was that the cruiserweight division has better depth than many prior heavyweight eras. There is a lot of talent even if you take away the top 3 or 4 guys.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  10. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    What's unclear ( to me, anyway) is whether you are using the 6'3, 221lb Usyk's win against Anthony Joshua, as proof that size wouldn't matter at all for much smaller men who fought nothing like him in mythical matchups against better big men than Joshua?
     
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  11. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Excellent post which breaks down the thinking behind the match up perfectly!
     
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  12. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Some I would give a very dim chance of winning in todays field. 5 feet ten,185lbs, slowish men who cut , had very short reaches , and had only average defensive skills would be top of that list."Flames of pure fire" like Dempsey with his out attack, bobbing and weaving,quick feet and quick hands ,with power in both ,having already proven they could get good big guys out and quickly are not on that list.Ditto proven men like Louis he would not feature on it either .
     
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    It matters a lot when skill is similar, such as Wlad v. Ibragimov. Anyone thinking Joshua matched Usyk in skill doesn’t know boxing.
     
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  14. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Are you talking about Ali ?! If so, I agree with you.
     
  15. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm not sure if I agree with the premise that SHW domination has been disproved by Usyk's win over Joshua. If he fights another SHW in his next fight and loses doesn't that mean the SHWs are still on top?
    Based on accomplishments in his own era probably not. If your ranking someone on what they did in their own era his failure to fight virtually all his contemporaries aside from Holyfield hurts his legacy.