Classic Forum Chat: Size isn't the only factor.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/who-did-holmes-duck.498879/page-11#post-16003847

 

So that's not one defence against Ring's nr 1 for the entire reign of 20 defences.

 

OK. I was kind of hoping for a cited publication. And, the Ali rating at #5 seems off to me, given Ali Retired in '79 and came back to fight Holmes the following year, without any fights in between those two points in time (although, I would be surprised if Ali has been installed as such, on his return, without having to earn it).

I know the Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings place Bey at #3 at the end of 1984, but I cannot, so far, find anything to corroborate that. Perhaps he did leap from #8 to #3 on the strength of beating Page.

It isn't all that important, in the scheme of the discussion because, while you can criticize Thomas, Witherspoon, Tubbs, Page, Coetzee etc, Bey's moment in the sun was brief and never repeated. I don't think it reasonable to consider Bey on a par with these guys, despite the victory over Page.

It was all he did and not only did Page looked dire in that fight, but he also got a shot at Coetzee in his next bout, won the title, and went ahead of Bey as Ring's #2, by the year's end. Thomas was the Ring's #1 Contender, at this stage...

Indeed, Thomas was counted in the Top-5 for five years running; Witherspoon for eight years running; Even the unpredictable Page ended the year in the Ring Top-10, six times - and four of those times in the Top-5.

For this reason and reasons given previously, Bey doesn't compare.

 

Sorry to harp on about this, but I don't think the fight really showed us anything new. We already knew that guys Usyk's size could be competitive against the modern SHWs. Holy, Byrd etc. And Usyk is actually bigger than both and has arguably been more dominant against guys his size (ca 6'3 and 210-220 lbs).

We already knew that this size disparity could be overcome, even by guys that weren't nearly as good as Usyk (Brewster). Hell, Fury even struggled against Cunningham. He doesn't have a patch on Usyk either. So I just don't see in what way Usyk's win was an epiphany.

What hasn't happened since guys like Lewis and the Klits started their almost 20 years of dominance is someone Usyk's size cleaning house. That will be hugely interesting to see if he can do.

 

It's rare for people of any size to clean house, though.

 

Lewis and Wlad came fairly close.

 

Yeah, we've probably said our piece.

 

I agree. They were unusual even among champions, is what I was getting at.

 

Strongly disagree with the highlighted portion, but the rest is reasonable, IMO.

 

Thank you for the compliment!

 

You’re gonna make a lot of people angry. They wear their rose tinted glasses w Holmes. Can’t imagine if the little guy failed to fight a number one contender. Pathetic.

 

Hey go easy on me! lol

 

@Man_Machine

Its the ol´ @choklab fairytale about HW Michael Spinks beeing The Man to beat right after 1985

You can throw it all out the the window by just checking three Holmes results at the time:

Holmes - Williams
Holmes - Spinks 1
Holmes - Spinks 2

On a fair scale, late Larry Holmes finished at

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Michael Spinks lost the rematch and was by no account or whatsover better than aging Larry Holmes or any of the contender types Carl Williams Holmes drew with (and along with him Pinklon Thomas, Witherspoon, Tubbs or Tucker). They were all sitting in the same size H2H boat.

 

A lot of people thought Larry won his rematch with Spinks, myself included, but Spinks was the defending champion and he got the decision. You just have to live with that.

what had Pinklon, Tim or Tubbs do in anyway shape or form that gave anyone the impression they beat somebody while that person was considered the best in the world?

They were good fighters. But all anyone could do was hope they could beat Larry.

Thomas looked good beating weaver. But Weaver was not the best in the world. Then he lost to Berbick. When was Berbick thought of as the best in the world?

Tubbs. He was supposed to lose to Page. He was unranked. Page was supposed to lose to Coetzee. For all a belt was exchanged nobody knew why.

people can say Spinks was no better than Carl Williams based on both of their fights with Larry… but I think Spinks gave Larry more trouble than Williams and the official results show that he did.

It’s ok looking back now and saying Larry was then looking a weak champion because he properly was. But nobody was eclipsing him. Spinks got those results over Larry at the time that it counted. I think Spinks made Larry look worse than he was and he probably deserves a bit more credit for making two fights close with the best heavyweight in the world when the other guys could not win hand picked fights.

Thry all went off and lost. Williams lost. Thomas Lost. Tubbs lost.