Classic Forum Collective Top 10 All-Time Heavyweights--POLL CLOSED!

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rumsfeld, Jun 22, 2009.


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  1. kmcc505

    kmcc505 Sweet Scientist Full Member

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    Apr 20, 2008
    Holyfield is easily top ten. I think him fighting on past his prime leads a lot of folks to undervalue him. Historians will see things differently in the future IMO.

    Or maybe I just like the guy. :)
     
    kmcc505, Jul 20, 2009
    kmcc505, Jul 20, 2009
    #271
  2. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

    49,535
    15,967
    Jul 19, 2004
    ESB CLASSIC FORUM FINAL HEAVYWEIGHT RANKINGS:

    1. 1675 Muhammad Ali (52)
    2. 1375 Joe Louis (23)
    3. 638 Rocky Marciano (1)
    4. 580 Larry Holmes
    5. 488 Lennox Lewis (1)
    6. 462 Jack Johnson (1)
    7. 318 George Foreman
    8. 318 Jack Dempsey (2)
    9. 233 Mike Tyson
    10. 221 Joe Frazier
    11. 217 Sonny Liston
    12. 106 Evander Holyfield
    13. 79 Jim Jeffries
    14. 23 Gene Tunney
    15. 21 Sam Langford
    16. 15 Jersey Joe Walcott
    17. 14 John L. Sullivan
    18. 8 Ezzard Charles
    19. 4 Harry Wills
    20. 2 Wladimi Klitschko
    20. 2 Riddick Bowe
    22. 1 Floyd Patterson

    Here is the distribution of votes.
    TOTAL LISTS - NAME - (1st-2nd-3rd-4-5-6-7-8-9-10)

    80 Muhammad Ali (52 20 3 3 0 1 1 0 0 0)
    80 Joe Louis (23 50 1 1 2 2 0 0 1 0)
    78 Rocky Marciano (1 3 22 13 9 8 8 6 4 4)
    72 Larry Holmes (0 1 18 14 14 10 8 3 2 2)
    66 Lennox Lewis (1 0 11 12 14 7 8 8 3 2)
    60 Jack Johnson (1 4 10 11 5 10 9 4 3 3)
    67 George Foreman (0 0 2 5 10 9 14 15 6 6)
    52 Jack Dempsey (2 1 4 7 5 6 7 5 7 :cool:
    49 Mike Tyson (0 1 2 7 5 5 1 8 11 9)
    65 Joe Frazier (0 0 2 0 3 9 10 16 15 10)
    52 Sonny Liston (0 0 2 2 7 7 10 2 14 :cool:
    35 Evander Holyfield (0 0 0 2 2 2 2 9 7 11)
    11 Jim Jeffries (0 0 3 1 2 2 0 2 0 1)
    7 Gene Tunney (0 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 3)
    9 Sam Langford (0 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 2 4)
    6 Jersey Joe Walcott (0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 3)
    3 John L. Sullivan (0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1)
    1 Ezzard Charles (0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0)
    4 Harry Wills (0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4)
    1 Wladimi Klitschko (0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0)
    1 Riddick Bowe (0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0)
    1 Floyd Patterson (0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1)
     
    Rumsfeld, Jul 20, 2009
    Rumsfeld, Jul 20, 2009
    #272
  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Holmes got screwed.
     
    IntentionalButt, Jul 20, 2009
    IntentionalButt, Jul 20, 2009
    #273
  4. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

    49,535
    15,967
    Jul 19, 2004
    1. Muhammad Ali
    1st: 52
    Top 3: 75
    Top 5: 78
    Lists: 80
    Average: 20.9

    2. Joe Louis
    1st: 23
    Top 3: 74
    Top 5: 77
    Lists: 80
    Average: 17.2

    3. Rocky Marciano
    1st: 1
    Top 3: 26
    Top 5: 48
    Lists: 78
    Average: 8.0

    4. Larry Holmes
    1st: 0
    Top 3: 19
    Top 5: 47
    Lists: 72
    Average: 7.3

    5. Lennox Lewis
    1st: 1
    Top 3: 12
    Top 5: 28
    Lists: 66
    Average: 6.1

    6. Jack Johnson
    1st: 1
    Top 3: 15
    Top 5: 31
    Lists: 60
    Average: 5.8

    7. George Foreman
    1st: 0
    Top 3: 2
    Top 5: 17
    Lists: 67
    Average: 4.0

    7. Jack Dempsey
    1st: 2
    Top 3: 7
    Top 5: 19
    Lists: 52
    Average: 4.0

    9. Mike Tyson
    1st: 0
    Top 3: 3
    Top 5: 15
    Lists: 49
    Average: 2.9

    10. Joe Frazier
    1st: 0
    Top 3: 2
    Top 5: 5
    Lists: 65
    Average: 2.8

    *11. Sonny Liston
    1st: 0
    Top 3: 2
    Top 5: 11
    Lists: 52
    Average: 2.7
     
    Rumsfeld, Jul 20, 2009
    Rumsfeld, Jul 20, 2009
    #274
  5. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    May 30, 2009
    Easily? Then who is he so much more deservingly ahead of on the list?

    :patsch

    He is ranked high on ESB comparably to other experts/historians. Most rank him in the middle toward the outside of the top 10. Many seem to think he's underrated, and if you're constantly thought as underrated you're probably not. You're just polarizing.

    Looking at the votes I figured Marciano and Holmes to be the most polarizing HW champs (Especially Marciano), with Tyson as the next one (He's on about half the lists, and when he was around the middle a lot. Actually now that I looked at it it appears Dempsey was even more polarizing. Some rank Dempsey in the top 3 of all time. ESB thinks a lot less highly of him than most do. We're just smart and critical I guess).
     
    PetethePrince, Jul 20, 2009
    PetethePrince, Jul 20, 2009
    #275
  6. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jun 26, 2009
    You could start with Tyson, a guy he beat twice at the same points in their careers.
     
    Saintpat, Jul 20, 2009
    Saintpat, Jul 20, 2009
    #276
  7. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

    28,760
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    May 30, 2009
    It depends how you define same point I guess. Holyfield was past his best but not long gone past it at least compared to Tyson physically and mentally at that point. Only the heart scare issue and his two falling out losses - one of which is very debatable against Moorer made the fight seem so a big upset. It is and rightfully it is, but Tyson was farther from his best than Holyfield at that point.
     
    PetethePrince, Jul 20, 2009
    PetethePrince, Jul 20, 2009
    #277
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,582
    46,201
    Feb 11, 2005
    "6. Jack Johnson
    1st: 1
    Top 3: 15
    Top 5: 31
    Lists: 60
    Average: 5.8"

    This is so preposterous, the entire board should be disbanned and taken off line.
     
    Seamus, Jul 20, 2009
    Seamus, Jul 20, 2009
    #278
  9. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,372
    473
    Oct 6, 2004
    You have him higher?
     
    Boilermaker, Jul 20, 2009
    Boilermaker, Jul 20, 2009
    #279
  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jun 26, 2009
    Holyfield at the time appeared to be more on the downside. Because he won those fights in retrospect it looks different.

    Are you saying Tyson should get credit for ducking him up to that point?
     
    Saintpat, Jul 20, 2009
    Saintpat, Jul 20, 2009
    #280
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    401,394
    83,260
    Nov 30, 2006
    The fact that 2 people picked Dempsey, 1 picked Johnson, and 1 picked Lewis as #1 OAT, but nobody picked Holmes (as I would have had I realized the poll had an expiration date)...that's what I find crazy. For Holmes at least one can make (and many have made) a sensible case to rate over Louis and Ali head to head. Dempsey, Johnson, and Lewis?
     
    IntentionalButt, Jul 20, 2009
    IntentionalButt, Jul 20, 2009
    #281
  12. PbP Bacon

    PbP Bacon ALL TIME FAT Full Member

    718
    3
    Jun 9, 2009
    Keeping Holy out of the Top 10 is always going to be a hard sale .... particularly if Tyson is included in the Top 10

    True it is not a H2H list, but a logical question is: how comes Tyson is in the Top 10 and the man who handily defeated him is not? :think
     
    PbP Bacon, Jul 20, 2009
    PbP Bacon, Jul 20, 2009
    #282
  13. kmcc505

    kmcc505 Sweet Scientist Full Member

    884
    8
    Apr 20, 2008
    Holyfiled should be ranked ahead of Tyson, Sullivan, Tunney, Frazier and Formeman easily IMO.
     
    kmcc505, Jul 21, 2009
    kmcc505, Jul 21, 2009
    #283
  14. kmcc505

    kmcc505 Sweet Scientist Full Member

    884
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    Apr 20, 2008
    Well, easily in a relative sense. Top Ten lists are hard after the top 3 IMO.
     
    kmcc505, Jul 21, 2009
    kmcc505, Jul 21, 2009
    #284
  15. Jaws

    Jaws Active Member Full Member

    652
    7
    Mar 13, 2009
    Then I guess Michael Spinks should be ranked as the #3 all-time heavyweight over Holmes for beating him twice?

    Just because someone beats someone doesn't mean they should automatically be placed ahead of them overall. Styles make fights and everyone loses to SOMEONE at some point in their career.

    Tyson has a more accomplished resume than Holyfield, in my opinion, and the Tyson that Holyfield beat was a shadow (albeit an intimidating one) of his former self.
     
    Jaws, Jul 21, 2009
    Jaws, Jul 21, 2009
    #285
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