Classic Forum Opinions...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Nemesis, Oct 29, 2007.


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  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    If he doesn't he has no right stepping into the ring. Both think they can win, and for good reason. The combined undefeated record is very impressive in this day and age.
     
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    #106
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Is it?

    Which fighters have they fought where they might have been expected to lose?

    I'd say Hatton's record is better than their combined record, he's laid it on the line more often outside of his comfort zone than both combined, no?
     
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    #107
  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Yes it is. Tell me the last time two topline fighters fought with this amount of wins vs zero losses for a title. I said nothing about quality of opposition, BUT

    was Caz a sizable underdog vs Lacy by any chance?
     
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    #108
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Both are heavily protected is my point - I think the days of being able to look at the numbers are gone. WBU and all of that ****.

    These two are not the worst offenders, but I still insist this is the first time either's 0 has really been at risk, even if they bring A game.

    I hope you know me well enough to know that I'm not arrogant or misleading about these things, but I honestly wasn't worried about Lacy and I'm telling you the truth.

    Worried about Kessler though.
     
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    #109
  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Heavily protected? Who else could they have beat in their own divisions??? Kessler rolled Mundine, Caz rolled Lacy etc. I really don't know that i'd call them protected mate.
     
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    #110
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm not about to start having this "own division" argument in classic as well as general, where i've been having it for about three months...but you are correct as far as it goes.

    The age Kessler is, there is nothing at all wrong with his standard of comp. I think Calzaghe is a disaster, and maybe the biggest waste in the history of the sport.
     
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    #111
  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    You said "both are heavily protected", but now regarding Kessler "there is nothing at all wrong with his standard of comp".

    You say Caz is a disaster, do you imply he should have scaled divisions?
     
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    #112
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I was hard on him, but I still beleive tonight is the first time he has put it all on the line.

    Or gone to the States and campaigned, or got a new promoter, or showed an ounce of ambition. If Joe wins tonight, it will be his first massive win. There have been GREAT fighters and plenty of good ones at and around the weight over the years.
     
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    #113
  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I think you are indeed harsh.

    You simply HAVE to be kidding. The win over Lacy was huge. Simply huge. Lacy's reputation was enormous, but as usual hindsight rules our views. Not having a go at you, but how quickly we forget or adjust.
     
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    #114
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I haven't forgotten, or adjusted, the huge wave of hype that Lacy rolled in on. But rep means only so much. He is another fighter without "a" career defining win (sort of missing the point these boys when they speak about a career defining win - the great champs have many) and hasn't impressed since. He's up at LHW where he seems destined to fail.

    Roy Jones Junior has three great wins. Ruiz (circumstance dependant), Hopkins (straight up and, especially when you consider the nature of the win) and Toney (compromised due to weight issues). He also has some very good wins.

    What great wins does Calzaghe have? The answer is none.
     
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    #115
  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    What career defining wins has Holmes got? Any mention of Cooney will be ridiculed. Same with Shavers. Norton was old. Holmes has zero. Pryor has 1, and it's eminently attackable. Foster has bugger all. Etc.

    Noway can we consider Hopkins a great or career defining win. He wasn't THAT highly considered at the time and you speak purely on hindsight alone. Hopkins was much much better later. Toney was a fantastic win.
     
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    #116
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Toney was absolutely destroyed making the weight.

    Hopkins was a fine fighter who was all but shut out on the cards.

    Of these wins I rate the Hopkins win more highly.
     
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    McGrain, Nov 3, 2007
    #117
  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I want you to factually show me how Toney was "destroyed" making the weight. Toney was talking the usual shyte pre fight. If he won we'd have heard none of it. Jones kicked his ass. Toney, P4P 2 at the time, whuped. You talk about Hopkins all but shut out, Toney was worse.

    Bottom line - "Hopkins was a fine fighter". This doesn't = a great win at all without allowing hindsight to add to it. A full year and a half later and Hopkins still hadn't hit his straps. The Hopkins that Jones actually beat does not = a great win. Holmes vs Witherspoon wasn't as great a win as many try to make it out either, Tim was a novice and hindsight clouds the issue.
     
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    JohnThomas1, Nov 3, 2007
    #118
  14. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hmm, looks like I'm lucky today and might see the fight after all on Hotbird sat.
     
    Senya13, Nov 3, 2007
    Senya13, Nov 3, 2007
    #119
  15. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Calzaghe had a chance to get US public attention in 2000 in the undercard of Tyson-Francis on Showtime, but his performance vs David Starie was lackluster, bad choice of opponent, so he missed his chance. Speaking of which, that's another fight where Calzaghe showed vulnerability to right hands (including straight punches), and also showed he wasn't that good fighting in clinches.
     
    Senya13, Nov 3, 2007
    Senya13, Nov 3, 2007
    #120
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