Classic Forum Opinions...

Toney's performance was the evidence he was destroyed making the weight. I'm not taking anything away from Jones' skills and ability to shut out Toney. Credit where it's due.

But Toney's reflexes and stamina were heavily effected. He could hardly get off with punches, and he was breathing heavily through his gumshield after 3 rounds.

Even the HBO commentators questioned the weight he had gained. He was weighed by HBO on scales the night of he fight and was 184lbs, which was 17lbs more than he stepped on the scales a day earlier. Gil Clancy stated "he's going to have concrete shoes on"

I asked Jackie Kallen about 2 months ago this question "Did James Toney have as much trouble making the weight against Jones as was made out be?"

Jackie "yes"

Toney was destroyed making the weight, but he was also destroyed by Jones.

 

Exactly, many will say Jones simply outclassed Toney.

The big question is - was this common or the norm for Toney? Had it happened before but not shown thru due to lesser opposition than the great Jones?

I don't believe i've taken a stance on the issue but have simply asked you to explore yours more deeply. Well i hope anyways, i've had a handful of stubs and bourbon cans so i might be wrong LOL

WEll impartial hindsight IMO proves Hopkins was far from great at the time of the fight if we go that route.

Hopkins had done "**** all in the sport" too and you are pumping this win up, no??? At least Lacy was a champ!

Lets get some things straight shall we! Where the hell have i discounted Jones celebrated run. I haven't. If you want to put me in the hater bracket, or even less you are going to be sadly proven wrong. Many times i have defended Jones awesome run vs criticism thank you very much. Am i not the one right now striving for more credit than you want to give for his Toney win?? I scale back on the Hopkins win and ramp up on the Toney win simply because i believe that is a balanced view. Maybe i'm wrong, maybe.

Bottom line - don't percieve me as a Jones critic because we will surely be on the same team at some point in the future.

Dig deeper into Hopkins and you will indeed find it does include finding his awesome mental strength post Jones.

McGrain, vastly enjoyed and appreciated the friendly debate mate but gotta go to bed any minute. 4am and a gutfull of good grog has the better of me.

Cheers mate

:good

 

Chuck won a six round decision over Mike Tyson in December 1986

 

last minute pick: Kessler by 11th round stoppage. should be fun! :good

 

One last thought.

Somtimes when you go up against a dangerous oponent is is not him who is your bigest enemy but his trainer. The last fighter you ever want to go up against is the one with the best trainer.

Kessler will not just be fighting one Calzaghe in two hours but the combined physical and mental resources of the whole family.

Joe Louis's best punch was always a Jack Blackburn strategy to the jaw.

 

That is where I went wrong! If only I had Arcel or Futch in more corner, I could of been 2-0 as an amateur rather than 1-0-1atsch

 

You probably would have been.

 

Of course you are spot on Janitor. There I was thinking my near complete inability to box cost me...*


































*My dad was the referee who scored my second fight a draw

 

No; you see you need coordination and a bit of heart to box. Something it took two amateur fights (Ray Arcel, Eddie Futch or Bill Harrison as my trainer) to learn...painfully!

 

I see that Senya is right on the money as usual, with his 1000% confident picks. Makes you wonder how spot on his other predictions - Jones UD Marciano - are..

 

Well that was his one big problem, if he turned out to be wrong after being so deeply clinical and confident he loses credibility, lots of it. Unlucky

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him saying he scored the bout for Kessler, going into every second of the fight and posting screen shots to "prove" his points lol

 

The aftermath-

Joe Calzaghe has held every meaningfull belt at super middleweight now and beaten the fighters that he was strongly advised to avoid on this board.

He should go in the IBHOF and join the pantheon of great British fighters allong with Fitzsimmons, Wilde, Driscoll, etc etc.

Mikel Kessler lost with honour. If Calzaghe retires or steps up the division is his.