Classic Forum's Reaction to Mayweather's Retirement and ATG Status

Listons jab is too slow to land signifigantly on ali, but it can be used as a deversion tool. Ali knows how deadly listons jab is. If liston just throws it consistently like norton did, to keep ali's focus and attention on avoiding the jab, it will open up doors for liston to sneak in a well timed hook and catch ali, and then follow up with clubbing blows to the head and body that virtually no fighter could take. Liston needs to make ali feel his power early, he needs to make it so ali will go into running mode rather than go in and out unleashing quick flurries ray leonard style. Liston needs to keep his body movement intact, and keep fleetfooted like he did in the 1950s......and he has to show up trim. If he shows up at 204lb like he did vs wayne bethea, his speed reflexes will be much sharper and faster. if he shows up a bulked up 215lb vs ali, he will be too slow and stand no chance.

 

I didn't think he looked particularly fast against Besmanoff or Machen, either. Were his legs totally gone for those fights as well?

 

PBFM is a very good fighter from this era but he's not an all time great IMO. He simply hasn't done enough in his career to be considered an all time great fighter. He has the skills relative of an ATG fighter, but he leaves a career that I believe is seriously unfinished. Maybe he's scared of losing the status he thinks he's attained or he probably has legitimate fears of neurological damage which is reflective of fighters that have stayed in the sport way too long.

Ali gave the world three fights with Frazier, three with Norton, two with Patterson, two with Liston, two with Spinks, two with Chuvalo, and two with Quarry. Sure, there was no Foreman rematch, no Shavers rematch and Jimmy Young never got a rematch. Regardless, if you're an Ali supporter or not, the man still did a lot more in his career against his toughest opposition than Floyd has ever done in his career.

Mayweather fought Delahoya once, Hatton once, Zab Judah once, hasn't fought Mosely, no Cotto and no Margarito. Why should he be considered an all time great with this much unfinished business?

Very good fighter, not an all time great, probably not first ballot HOF either IMO. Eddie Futch once called him the best prospect he's seen since Holman Williams and Charley Burley. Now he grossly fails to live up to that compliment by ending his boxing career this early. Floyd's never really had to deal with any sort of adversity or strife in a fight, knowing that he has to dig deep within himself to pull off a victory. Quite possibly the fact that he's had a less perilous career than most fighters considered ATGs justifies his skill level and career as an ATG and first ballot HOFer?

 

While I agree with some of your criticisms, in all fairness you're comparing Mayweather to the concensus best fighter of all time. While Mayweather did not give rematches to the fighters you listed, I'd say he defeated them, plus many others in convincing enough fashion to where he didn't have to. I mean do we really need to see him beat up Ricky Hatton again? Did we really need to see Ali fight Quarry twice, or Leon Spinks at all for that matter?

Floyd Mayweather has beaten a decent number of the sport's best fighters over the last decade. He has won titles in some five different divisions, and what's more, has never lost.

Mayweather may not have accumulated enough outings to hold a candle to such names as Robinson, Pep, Armstrong or Sadler, but I do think he fits the bill as an all time great fighter.

 

In all fairness, a Hatton rematch would give more weight to his status as an ATG fighter, especially if he dispatched him earlier than the first fight. Same goes for his fight against Delahoya. I scored that fight in favour of PBF by at least 4 points, but there are many who believe Delahoya won the fight. If he was able to outpoint Delahoya that much more decisively in a rematch, again that would greater strengthen the claim that he's an all time great. Between PBF and Sugar Shane, there's no excuse for not getting this fight done. In fact, I would hold Mayweather to a higher standing if he beat Hatton and Delahoya twice and continued his career with defenses against Cotto and Margarito.

DelaHoya is in the exact same boat as PBF. No Quartey rematch, no Trinidad rematch, no Pernell Whitaker rematch, and no Sturm rematch. These three decisions in favour of the Golden Boy are marred with controversy regardless of the winner. Wouldn't an ATG fighter want to prove to his fans, eradicate the controversy and win the rematches decisively?

Same thing goes for Roy Jones Jr. He avoided a couple of serious contenders in Darius Michalczewksi, Graciano Rocchigiani and a rematch with Hopkins, thus diminishing his status as an ATG, IMO.

 

I don't see what a Hatton rematch would do for Mayweather's legacy. He already whupped him once and stopped him. The fight wasn't especially close.

DLH fought better opposition, but his lack of rematches hurts him more than it does for Mayweather. DLH's wins over Whitaker, Quartey, and Sturm were more debatable/controversial in most observers' eyes than Mayweather's win over DLH, and Mayweather beat Castillo clearly in the rematch after the controversial first fight.

It was basically the PBF-DLH match than prevented PBF-Mosley in November 2006. I didn't buy for one second Mosley's "I need to go to the dentist" excuse. More like, "I need to listen to my boss who wants to fight Floyd".