Classic Forums Thoughts on Pac-DLH

Hold your horses now.

Again GREAT performance from Pac , no doubt, but lets not go overboard. DLH is old and does not even come close to what he was in the Mayweather fight, for some reason he had a rapid downfall in the last year and a half. It happens to a lot or almost all fighters and one day it will happen to Pac when a new young gun will clean his clock .

I am convinced if Pac would have faced the Quartey, Chavez or Trinidad DLH version he would not see the distance. IMO of course. Pac was there to be hit but as Foreman once described getting old as a fighter "My eyes saw the openings but the signal from the brain did not reach my fists in time ".

He has cleaned out the old shopworn brigade , bravo to him and that what he was supposed to do but just lets calm down a bit and see him perform against young elite in their prime $$$ fighters like Hatton, Mayweather or Cotto before we call him the new methusalem.

 

So what do you think happened?......

......do you think HBO was in cahoots with DLH to give the viewer false information about his weight during his training and up to the time he climbed into the ring?

I certainly would'nt put it past HBO to do that, but they'd also be putting their name and credibiltiy on the line if someone in the know inside their circle came out to make it public.

The whole thing is just wierd to me......from 145 lbs for the official weighin to HBO's announcement of 147 lbs right before DLH walks to the ring.

Scientist, we made our predictions and both of us thought DLH would have a fairly easy time of it........if you would have known beforehand that DLH would officially tip the scales at 145 lbs and then 147 lbs right before his ringwalk, would you have changed the tune on your prediction?

........I think the great majority of this forum would have picked Pacquiao under those circumstances.

 

*Sigh*

Yes, and if you read closely, you'll see that I said young De La Hoya would probably have done everything we were expecting him to do the other night.

The reason for my post was that like many I got so tied up in seeing the issue between Oscar and Pac as a size issue that I hadn't looked much at styles, other than that Pac might be open to Oscar's counters. However, Oscar did always like to fight at a slow controlled pace, and by using his reach to set the distance. And regardless of age, I think Pac would have gotten him out of his preferred rythmn and forced him to make adjustments because of it.

I AM NOT SAYING PAC WOULD BEAT THE OSCAR OF 98-99.

I am saying that he might trouble him, force him out of his preferred style and method of fighting. That is all. And I was wondering if anyone saw the clash between styles similarly.

 

I don't know Vlade. I'm just relying on my eyes really and they tell me DLH looked bigger than Pac. Could have been that DLH was more a shell in a literal sense, that is, bigger in shape but with a lesser volume, and thus their weight was relatively similar, but I doubt that.

If someone told me DLH was going to be 147 on fightnight I wouldn't have believed them. He probably hasn't weighed that low on fight night in over a dozen years, since about 1995 in fact. If DLH hopped on the scales in front of my eyes and that's what it said, there's no way I would have picked him to win.

I'm guessing that if DLH was really in the 140's for weeks before the fight they would have noticed how much energy, reflexes and strength he lacked and wouldn't have persevered to keep him at that weight for so long.

The whole getting him acclimatised to the weight rationale seems like crap to me. Why would Oscar need to acclamitise to 147? He needed to weigh that amount for 5 minutes and then get back to the 150's where he is more comfortable. The plan should have been to always weigh in the 150's. If it was for greater speed and reflexes, like I said, it should have been obvious that wasn't going to work in the lead up to the fight. There's no way known I'd buy the 'DLH wanted to make the win legitimate by being the same weight as Pac' excuse.

 

I agree, it doesn't seem very likely, but the effects shown pretty much mirrror something like that happening, such as your shell analogy. That really did seem to be the case with Oscar, he simply had nothing inside, no strength, no stamina, no energy. He just seemed completely drained in there. Manny and the crew were talking at large about how much smaller Hoya came in then expected as well. He's always going to look bigger than Pacquiao because of his much larger frame, but Pacquiao looked a lot fuller and fitter in there. I think the De La Hoya camp did something wrong for sure, though not sure yet as to exactly what.

 

Well,the heavier and stronger man won.Most of us got that right.

 

Delahoya was more concerned about his fight purse than fighting Pacquiao. The younger, fresher and ultimately hungrier fighter won the fight. He should perhaps retire for good, unless his ego needs another whupping. Then again, if the money is right, Delahoya probably fights most within a 10 lb weight radius. Delahoya hasn't been hungry since he insisted on fighting Julio Cesar Chavez in a rematch which shouldn't have happened in the first place. If he retires, I believe he leaves the sport with unanswered questions and unfinished business. Whitaker, Quartey and Sturm were all deserving of rematches that never happened. If any of these potential rematches had taken place, we probably wouldn't be talking about Delahoya vs Pacquiao. Even though I'm not a huge fan of Delahoya, but I'll admit that he's been one of the most dominant champions in the last 15 years.

 

Oscar lost this fight by being too cute ... to make the match he decided to fight too light and it destroyed him. He was no where near the man who fought Mayweather, the barameter we all expected him to be ... I take nothing away from Paq but Oscar had zero that night .

 

I can't see Oscar's style as ever having been "free flowing", "fluid and loose". I did not say that he was either 'rigid' or 'tight', but that he was tense, calculating, and cautious. Yes he could be explosive when he knew he had his man, and yes he had good fundamentals, I wouldn't argue otherwise. Against Hernandez he was indeed very mobile outside and lured Genaro in. A good strategy, but he was not naturally the rythym fighter that Manny is.

I stand by the opinion that his style was always ill-suited for Pacquaio for reasons already stated.

 

Salud, JG.

 

If you ever want examples of any Oscar's fights where he was "free flowing", "fluid and loose", just let me know. And you can examine the footage for yourself when you have time.

You said "-and he's fluid, whereas Oscar is not" hence the reason I said De La Hoya wasn't rigid and tense, which is the opposite of what you termed him as being. I wasn't necassarily saying you said that. With rigid, I meant robotic. A tense fighter has difficulty being fluid and loose, and he tends to think more.

 

I have most of his fights, have examined them at length for years and have arrived at an informed conclusion about his style.

Your manner of framing your arguments is often "free flowing", "fluid and loose". I suspect that here, your definitions of boxing terminology are (or will end up being) "free flowing", "fluid and loose". And I'd rather not punch clouds.

--Like Oscar.

 

I can't see Oscar's style as ever having been "free flowing", "fluid and loose".

Wrong, no question whatsoever.

Classic examples; Ruelas, Hernandez, Chavez I.

 

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Certainly fluid and loose here. Not cautious, although not reckless either. Not tense, probably a tad calculating based on his punch output. He's not throwing 60-70 punches a round.

You'll find some way, Stonehands, of coming up with some mumble jumble nonsense trying to tell me he wasn't fluid and loose.

He's on his toes, getting off with punches freely, bending from the waist, showing lateral movement, getting off with punches easily when he sees opportunities, fighting on the backfoot at times. The man is fluid and loose.

 

...Your manner of framing your arguments is often "free flowing", "fluid and loose". I suspect that here, your definitions of boxing terminology are (or will end up being) "free flowing", "fluid and loose". And I'd rather not punch clouds.

There's also a strain of hypocrisy here, Robbi. You stated recently that I come out here looking for a fight -and yet this is not the first time that you throw a shot. I usually welcome that; but this debate will be a stupid one about what is meant by fluid and loose and what is meant by tense.

If you choose to believe what you have stated about Oscar, you're welcome to it. I'm not about to quibble over semantics; nor would I seek to abolish your right to be wrong.