Classic Poll : Wlad v.s. Louis ...

A pretty damn frustrated one who agrees with much of what I've been saying on this thread.

 

Don't forget about our favorite arreola. ohhh yes.

 

Yeah, he was almost exactly the same with Lewis - when Lewis was still active.
Since Lewis retired he looks back with rose-tinted glasses.

 

What lack of technique do you find in Wlad? Defensively jumping back in a straight line to avoid punches? His punching technique? I don't think my problems with Wlad stem so much with his technique, besides the former I mentioned. Don't mean to plunge into a linguistic or semantics discussion, but technique seems like the wrong word.

 

It's pretty clear to me that he thought more highly of Lewis then as well as now. He was a wreck during the Tyson fight, but he has more issues with what Wlad is not doing and with his mentality than he ever had with Lewis.

 

He's simplistic and panicky. I don't see combinations and I suspect that is because putting punches together requires some risk and committment, whereas Wlad is more insecure than the vast majority fighters I've ever seen. He doesn't take many risks in there, despite his superhero appearance. I don't see counterpunching beyond tit-for-tats and only when he's not jumping backwards. That pawing jab is worthless -he rarely sets anything up with it and it seems indicative of nerves more than tactics. He does nothing inside except for hold and lean. His stance is too wide.

In sum, he may be "effective" but he is nearly as devestating as he could be. He is therefore not nearly as marketable as he could be.

I really think that Manny is trying. Wlad may indeed be far more impressive in sparring behind closed doors, but besides the obvious holes in his style, he is missing something even more critical than that.

 

You and I both know that Dempsey's effectiveness was directly tied into his edge and his edge sprang from desperation and hunger. I am sure that he had diminished ...by 1920! By the time he fought Tunney, he got civilized. That middle finger he had up against the whole world had been long-since replaced by a pinky sticking out from a tea cup.

A civilized Dempsey is like a middleweight Wlad ... something far less than a world-beater. (I couldn't resist. Here come the picket signs!)

 

Quality as always

 

Plus, Lewis apparently hurt his right hand during the fight. Which wasn't known until later in time.

I agree wholeheartedly. I just don't think what you've described as much of a lack in technique then mentality. Although there is much of an argument with skills. As you've pointed out, his counter-punching ability is nearly non-existent. Probably due to nerves, and wanting to minimize the risk like you also pointed out.

Essentially we've agreed over the last pages. I just got caught up on a particular word when I shouldn't have.

As for Wlad's stance. This is an absolute focal point of Steward's work with fighters. He's done work in fixing Cotto's balance, and having him stand a bit more upright to use his jab. Visualizing Hearns, his stance seemed maybe a little wide. Wlad's a big power-puncher. Do you think it's a bit wide because he's more cautious about his balance, defense, and being able to get away from punches? I figure Steward would fix something like this, so I'm not too sure of Wlad's stance is really much of a problem. Even if it's a little on the wide end.

 

He has also stated that Wlad is both the most intimidating fighter he has ever trained and the most powerful puncher. How much of that is just ballyhoo? Who knows?

Regarding technique, Wlad can most times get away with stepping straight back from punches, because with a little lean and his height, he is out of the way. What I don't like is his wide stance and when he squats down to jab at his opponents, negating the advantages of his height. But as has been my argument all along, he has put together a very nice, very dominant run with all his supposed deficiencies.

 

Emmanuel Steward in his current incarnation is only surpassed in ballyhoo by Roach; he says all sorts of wild stuff.