Classic Poll : Wlad v.s. Louis ...

If Louis had a ring as small as he fought against Carnera, Wlad gets knocked out, just like Carnera.

 

S,what can I add to your analysis.? Perfectly stated ! I think his obvious reluctance to engage,stems from awareness that he is slow and limited
INSIDE,and his unique large frame is virtually only made for the "outside",
where he only feels safe. He knows "danger" lurks in close,where he is almost helpless. He is a technician,going by the book, rather than a true fighter who is willing to engage...:good

 

Is Baer's jab remotely comparable though? What about the problems Conn, Walcott, Schmelling gave him? Or the fact he was down so often? He hasn't faced a jabber with the rang of Klitschko

His coordination and footwork isn't amazing, but it is effective, its basic range controlling footwork and he is a hell of an athlete. An opponent comes in Wlad takes a step back to counter and more often than not it stops an opponent coming in, then he's constantly jabbing with a fast jab at that or feinting the jab, which pushes opponents back

Wlad is actually a good combination puncher - see the Mercer fight. But he doesn't dare through a left hook anymore, lack of self confidence in his chin

This is a valid point, he does panic and if Louis gets to him enough times he'd probably crumble. Although when he was kd'ed by Williamson he did a good job fighting his way out of trouble. But now when you get inside he grabs you, then he leans on you pressing you down, then the ref seperates and you need to get past his jab again. It's not pretty but it works

 

**** you, Journeyman..... Give the K-brothers some goddamn credit..... "No heart or coordination?" Go ahead and **** off........ FOOL!

MR.BILL:fire

 

You gotta love these jaggov's who rag on the K-brothers just as both bros. are on long-ass winning streaks against the best opponents out there in 2011..... Christ, talk about lack of vision and no sense of direction........ GEEZ!

MR.BILLatsch

 

I find all the psychologist couch stuff laughable. "Panic", "anxiety", "not a fighter, an athlete" ..... it all amounts to psychobabble.

Ironically, some pundits of Joe Louis's time often theorized that he was a "manufactured fighter", "programmed", a "robot" even, who needed constant instruction from his trainer to figure anything out.

Truth is, Joe Louis kept winning. Klitschko keeps winning. Whether fighting comes natural to these men, or whether they combat inner anxiety is immaterial.
Because they get the job done - and that's what matters.

 

The jabs of Carnera, Baer etc are comparable in the general type of challenge they present, although Wlad's is better and more versatile.

I don't understand for the life of me why people compare these guys with the Klitschkos. Conn gave Louis trouble by stick and moving and picking his shots, as well as short exchanges and smothering on the inside. Schmeling drew the guy into a chessmatch type fight which he was simply better at. Walcott broke the rhythm of an old Louis with his irregular feints, movement, jukes, and exploited his slowed reactions with sharp counters. None of these guys are like Wlad, in dimension or style. They could escape and outspeed Louis in spots. Louis did great against the big guys because he enjoyed a great speed+dexterity+skill edge over most of them. Even if they pale in quality, Carnera, the Baers and Simon are much better comparisons. If you're talking about feinting and drawing someone back with a step and nailing them with counters, nobody's better at that then Louis.

I have seen Wlad put together combinations, just like you see other superheavies do it once in a while, but none of them do it frequently. I think it's a combination of stamina issues and lack of coordination/fluidity. Much safer and smarter for those types to stick with well picked single shots.

 

Psychobabble my ass.

Most fights are won or lost because of what happens between the ears. Any trainer worth his weight will tell you that and many great ones already have...!

Louis was heavily reliant on Blackburn and rightly so. He did in fact constantly turn his ear to him even during rounds for mimed instructions. Do you deny that too?

Listen, every fighter has flaws and idiosyncracies and insecurities. If you are a fighter or a trainer or an analyst you want to seek them out and exploit them. If they're your own, you want to recognize them and address them so your opponent can't.

Klitschko is a behemoth. Behemoths are tough to beat, but especially if you don't do your damn homework before stepping into the ring. Haye and the American parade of "bums of the year" before him didn't. He will keep right on winning until he meets someone who isn't fat and who knows how to beat him.

Louis was thought to be a destroyer until he met Schmeling -who exploited a technical flaw that was not corrected in time to win that first fight. Louis didn't have any of Wlad's internal issues ...but many fighters do and anyone who can't see that isn't paying attention.

 

I'll take Louis listening to Blackburn's advice over Manny Steward screaming at Wlad to throw more punches and be more aggressive, quite frankly.

 

Well, I thought that Manny was addressing Wlad in a way that he needed to be addressed -he was addressing his meekness by trying to spark any fire in him. If he had he been successful, Wlad would've stopped Haye.

Had he been in Wlad's corner, Blackburn might've pulled a gun on him.

 

honest question here stoney: do you think that fire would lead wlad to be more like the offensive machine we saw under tommy brooks? and would that leave him less meek but more vulnerable to knockouts?

 

Couldn't have said it better myself, and I couldn't agree more!

As I watched on Sat, I couldn't help but think of what certain ATG's would do with both fighters, particularly Wlad.

He's too safety-first and too tentative to lead me to believe he would be anything but on the defensive, and that's not where he's at his best.

If he gave Haye too much respect and couldn't pull the trigger, that answers the question right there as to how Louis-Wlad would play out...

 

"Fire" may have been the wrong word there considering the real vulnerability of his chin. That being said, Wlad needs to understand that taking risks doesn't mean fighting like Nigel Benn. His risk-aversion almost freezes him in spots during his fights and he is not nearly as formidable as he should be. He is celebrated by classic fans (I guess more "purist" than I) as "effective" but they are forgetting that the most effective way to avoid getting hurt is to stay out of the ring.

It can actually be less risky for him if he only trusted his shots to do damage and threw them in combinations -from the outside. He'd be less vulnerable to get knocked out if he fights like a man with confidence and controlled aggression -and confidence in his controlled aggression. As it is, his style is not as difficult to penetrate as it seems to be -he's running away, jabbing, grabbing, and leaning. I used to fight behemoths all the time -they're not that hard to fight if you fight 'em right! Alas, in an alley full of poodles, the terrier is king.

 

50/50 K.O either way.

Never impressed at all with Joe's movement which is a big deal here, but if he can get inside with his combinations he would stop Wlad. Conversely Wlad plants him on a jab and starts letting his hands go then he stops Joe.

 

well put stoney and agreed:good i'll be honest, the liberal use of the right hand on the outside, left hook off the jab and inside uppercut is FAR more likely to keep a fighter away from someone's chin than is a tentative jab, judicious movement, and grabbing in close. wlad is deadly effective now: these tactics would do nothing (and did very little) against opponents willing to weather the relatively minor storm he offers now,burrow in and pound away

HOWEVER, his intelligence, generalship and technical prowess should not be discounted. He hardly lost a second against the 3rd greatest heavyweight in the world and whatever haye's reluctance to engage, much of that credit should go to wlad who controlled his opponent as well as anyone in history. haye got no closer to wlad than he allowed him to except for maybe 3 occasions. tommy laughran, from my understanding, utilized similar strategies and does not see similar derision.