Classic Poll : Wlad v.s. Louis ...

agreed. watch the second fight with griffith and tell me it's better than wlad's recent bouts :bbb

 

I don't see it as either/or. Size can be a serious advantage though it is not insurmountable because boxing is a skill sport. In that light, it seems to me that Wlad seems insurmountable because no one has the skill set to deal with his size. Wlad is not devoid of skill, though it is rudimentary at best.

 

:thinkhmmm, i see your point but what would you improve on him that would increase his effectiveness? there are gaps in his game for certain and i guess it's hard for me to notice cause of the extremely limited competition. even still, i was impressed with how he totally outclassed and nullfied a passable, technical opponent in chagaev

 

I'm not denying anything.

I'm just dismissing the significance of those things when it comes to certain fighters - ie. fighters who have already proved themselves as dominant champions.

Results are what counts.

Yep. And Klitschko must be doing a great job at exploiting the flaws of others, and shoring up his own insecurities.
He's doing an excellent job. He's winning, he's dominating. Maybe his flaws are just flat-out almost impossible to exploit, and maybe they don't exist to the degree you imagine.
That would explain why he keeps winning.

Here we go, the old "weak era", "load of bums" routine stuff - every heavyweight champion who reigned long was benefitting from.

Anyone who can't see that he's dominating a field of average contenders in impressive manner isn't paying attention.
And anyone who can't see that his alleged "internal issues" are not actually much of an issue at all, isn't paying attention.

 

I strongly disagree.
It takes immense skill to control distance and shut down contenders the way he does, fight after fight after fight.

 

Agreed......

And there was/is others with much more reach than Wlad.......isn´t just a matter of size......

 

i've been holding off posting on this because i was trying to convince myself that wlad had no chance vs louis but i think wlad's jab holds joe at bay for a decision win. over 15 wlad could fade and joe could catch him imo.

 

Holds Louis off?

Do you think he is just going to sulk while Wlad jabs at him?

 

If David Haye was able to catch Wlad with wide, looping, undisciplined punches from long range, Joe Louis wouldn't?

 

uh, no. i know how great louis was. i just think this is a really tough matchup for him because of the size difference.

 

Dosn't Louis's record suggest that he had less difficulty with this type of fighter than many smaller types?

 

In terms of being big men with jabs maybe Baer/Carnera are comparable, in terms of quality, speed and quantity of jab it's nowhere near, Haye didn't have a problem with Valuev or Ruiz's jabs which imo are better than Baer/Carnera but was completely controlled by Wlad's. Wlad's movement

I wouldn't compare Walcott/Conn/Schmelling with the Klits BUT they highlighted weaknesses in Louis, namely defense, predictable and slower footwork and jab that is ultimately limited

As for countering Wlad, its so hard because he's still out of your range when he lands his jab and he's accurate and doubles/trebbles the jab so he keep's you backed up and off balance. He also has decent reactions of his own

I disagree somewhat with you about Wlad's combinations. In that I believe it's mainly his gameplan not to leave any openings. If he hooks he leaves himself open, that's why despite having 1 of the best HW left hooks I've seen he no longer throws the left hook - crazy ehhhh? You maybe right about not throwing too many combinations because of his stamina. But he is a very good athlete, Emanuel Steward said he did 800m intervals in 2:00 or 2:30 a piece, if he said 2:00 he's just lying/wrong because that's what Seb Coe did 800m intervals in If he said 2:30 that is an incredibly fit heavyweight (presuming he's correct/telling the truth), your talking about the best decathletes level of 800m/1600m ability

 

Blackburn wasn't able to make Louis make adjustments mid-fight. Steward I think is a tad overrated as a trainer but he's very good with tall men and someone Wlad does need to be forced to turn up the pace

 

He bailed him out more than once.

 

Valuev and Ruiz's jabs are not better than Baer's. I wont say anything black and white about Carnera because I'm still not concrete about how i feel about his ability, but i'll say that much. Please watch the Levinski exhibition and you'll see how good and underrated his outboxing is. Max parries off his jab with his right hand very well, you might be surprised. He also does a good job taking his distance against Carnera and Comiskey very well.

As for footwork... Like i said i dont get it. Wlad is not a speed demon. He's not a fluid ring dancer. In fact i'd say he's more like a tentative backfoot Louis than any of those guys. And it's not like he presents much unorthodoxy either, everything he does is textbook.

Countering Wlad is possible. You just need to have confidence, good range negotiation, some body punching, and preferably a nice left hook over the top. I think Joe Louis has those, and his fencing(long distance straights from either hand) isn't bad either.

Indeed, he doesn't like leaving lots of openings. But i do believe that it's a combination of stamina limitations as much as intent. Remember when he was more aggressive? That really never worked out for him well. He could have been tightened up and economized without being neutered offensively, but his style does work I guess, and continues to.