Clay-Liston I / Was it fixed?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BillB, Aug 18, 2012.

Page 7 of 9
  1. JeanPaulValley

    JeanPaulValley Boxing Addict banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    4,738
    Likes Received:
    4
    Not a fix. The phantom punch clearly landed right on the chin and clearly hurt Liston. He walked into it and didn't see it coming because of the speed. Not a fix.
     
    JeanPaulValley, Aug 19, 2012
    #91
  2. DrBanzai

    DrBanzai Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,389
    Likes Received:
    22
    Clay was almost 40 when this fight took place, he was about 5 years past his prime. Clay lost because he was old, and also because he was fighting a great fighter.
     
    DrBanzai, Aug 19, 2012
    #92
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,617
    Likes Received:
    27,303
    The evidence is:

    The irregular betting pattern

    The fact that this was very much picked up on by the authorities at the time

    The way the fight unfolded, (going down early in the 1st is the most failsafe way of throwing a fight)
     
    janitor, Aug 19, 2012
    #93
  4. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    9,408
    Likes Received:
    48

    Exactly...............:thumbsup
     
    Senor Pepe', Aug 19, 2012
    #94
  5. Meazy-E

    Meazy-E Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    20
    :huh
     
    Meazy-E, Aug 19, 2012
    #95
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    82,092
    Likes Received:
    22,173
    irregular betting is always suspicious but not ever considered to be solid evidence.

    1st round ko is certainly no evidence of a fix.

    What you have is completely circumstantial and can all be explained much easier than resorting to claims of a fix.

    Certainly what you have is not enough to indicate the fix was probable. Much more likely is that the fight was on the level.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 19, 2012
    #96
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    82,092
    Likes Received:
    22,173
    I'm with BillB on this anyways.

    1st fight = legit shoulder injury

    2nd fight = legit knockdown with **** refereeing.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 19, 2012
    #97
  8. MagnaNasakki

    MagnaNasakki Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,658
    Likes Received:
    78
    Talking of irregular betting...

    My father, and most everybody he knew, put money on Ali for both fights. When I ask my Dad why, because all I had read put Ali as an overwhelming underdog, my father, being a boxing expert and a trainer, simply said:

    "How was an old, rusty as **** pug gonna beat a guy who moves like that?"

    Not everybody was as willing to put money behind Liston as we often read. Boxing has seen bigger upsets amongst the educated.
     
    MagnaNasakki, Aug 19, 2012
    #98
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    82,092
    Likes Received:
    22,173
    Great stuff MN
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 19, 2012
    #99
  10. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    9,408
    Likes Received:
    48
    "Put Your Trust in Me"

    This content is protected
     
    Senor Pepe', Aug 19, 2012
    #100
  11. Ramon Rojo

    Ramon Rojo Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    22
    First fight wasn't.

    Second fight could have been.
     
    Ramon Rojo, Aug 20, 2012
    #101
  12. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    25,213
    Likes Received:
    8,753
    So far,33 polled vote NO,and 7 have gone for YES. :D
     
    Stevie G, Aug 20, 2012
    #102
  13. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    9,408
    Likes Received:
    48
    Any boxing fan, with some knowledge could easily see Sonny was pulling his punches.

    So many openings for the right hand, and Sonny shooting the punch over Clay's
    shoulder and head.

    It's farcical,,,,,,

    Dave Bailey, a professional sparring partner who was there in Miami watching the bout from ringside.

    'It was pretty obvious through my eye's, that Sonny was trying to 'not' hit Cassius.
    I sparred with Cassius several times before I hurt my back, and I could hit him with the straight right hand
    without much difficulty. I don't know, it looked like Liston was just going through the motions.'
     
    Senor Pepe', Aug 20, 2012
    #103
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    82,092
    Likes Received:
    22,173
    BillB presented evidence that Liston hurt his shoulder. The man is a scholar and a gent and I am with him to the end on this one :good
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 20, 2012
    #104
  15. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    9,408
    Likes Received:
    48
    Sonny would never lie,,,,,,,,

    Oh, my sore shoulder.

    This content is protected
     
    Senor Pepe', Aug 20, 2012
    #105
Page 7 of 9