Clay-Liston I / Was it fixed?

Not a fix. The phantom punch clearly landed right on the chin and clearly hurt Liston. He walked into it and didn't see it coming because of the speed. Not a fix.

 

Clay was almost 40 when this fight took place, he was about 5 years past his prime. Clay lost because he was old, and also because he was fighting a great fighter.

 

The evidence is:

The irregular betting pattern

The fact that this was very much picked up on by the authorities at the time

The way the fight unfolded, (going down early in the 1st is the most failsafe way of throwing a fight)

 

Exactly...............:thumbsup

 

:huh

 

irregular betting is always suspicious but not ever considered to be solid evidence.

1st round ko is certainly no evidence of a fix.

What you have is completely circumstantial and can all be explained much easier than resorting to claims of a fix.

Certainly what you have is not enough to indicate the fix was probable. Much more likely is that the fight was on the level.

 

I'm with BillB on this anyways.

1st fight = legit shoulder injury

2nd fight = legit knockdown with **** refereeing.

 

Talking of irregular betting...

My father, and most everybody he knew, put money on Ali for both fights. When I ask my Dad why, because all I had read put Ali as an overwhelming underdog, my father, being a boxing expert and a trainer, simply said:

"How was an old, rusty as **** pug gonna beat a guy who moves like that?"

Not everybody was as willing to put money behind Liston as we often read. Boxing has seen bigger upsets amongst the educated.

 

Great stuff MN

 

"Put Your Trust in Me"

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First fight wasn't.

Second fight could have been.

 

So far,33 polled vote NO,and 7 have gone for YES.

 

Any boxing fan, with some knowledge could easily see Sonny was pulling his punches.

So many openings for the right hand, and Sonny shooting the punch over Clay's
shoulder and head.

It's farcical,,,,,,

Dave Bailey, a professional sparring partner who was there in Miami watching the bout from ringside.

'It was pretty obvious through my eye's, that Sonny was trying to 'not' hit Cassius.
I sparred with Cassius several times before I hurt my back, and I could hit him with the straight right hand
without much difficulty. I don't know, it looked like Liston was just going through the motions.'

 

BillB presented evidence that Liston hurt his shoulder. The man is a scholar and a gent and I am with him to the end on this one :good

 

Sonny would never lie,,,,,,,,

Oh, my sore shoulder.

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