Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Richard M Murrieta, Feb 16, 2021.
Interesting fight. I am sure Williams will try his best.
Quarry lost to Chuvalo in his prime who was at least a level below Williams.
Machen a superior counter-puncher who wiped the floor with every puncher he faced (except Ingo) like Quarry should’ve done the same to Williams following the logic in this thread. Instead all he could get was a majority draw where the third judge scored the bout clearly for Williams.
Oh and a shot Machen beat an undefeated (albeit admittedly green) Quarry.
He came back as a ghost
I would say Lyle or Shavers were at least equal to Williams. I mean, Lyle did better against his "Liston" in George Foreman. And Lyle showed he could get off the deck to win against a big puncher when he stopped Shavers.
Quarry was the better fighter, more proven, beat better competition, and has a stylistic advantage. This is a no brainer.
Lyle and Shavers combined wins against contenders is about equal to Williams. Williams also doesn't have a Bob Stallings loss in his prime, or even after he was shot.
Lyle's "Liston" was coming off a two year exile, after a heart-breaking loss, and was mentally shattered. Williams did infinitely better against his Machen than Lyle did in his Machen in Young.
Lyle was saved by the bell. Had it been earlier in the round, Shavers ends it right there imo. Shavers' poor endurance cost him the fight. For a guy noted for having a poor chin, he absorbed Lyle's punches very well before gassing out.
Williams also beat a big puncher in John Holman who probably didn't punch as hard, but had a superior resume to Shavers, and beat many more contenders. Oh and Williams didn't have to get off the canvas to do so.
I'm not convinced that Foreman would have ever steam rolled Lyle. Lyle may not have been all that against skilled boxer types like Young, but if Lyle fought Williams, they would be right there for each other. I can accept that Williams may have done better vs Young, but seeing how Lyle was able to absorb the punishment he did vs Foreman and Shavers, I couldn't pick him to beat Lyle. Once Liston put Williams on the canvas, that was it. I think Liston would beat Lyle, but if Liston got drawn into a slugfest like Foreman did, Liston may have had to get off the deck to do it. Shavers vs Williams, also a pick 'em. I can see giving the edge to Williams, but Shavers did slay Norton, which one can argue is better than drawing with Machen. Norton may have been a bit past it, but he went on to battle Holmes to a standstill and I think Shavers would have always gotten to him.
I think Williams was certainly willing. I like his attitude. But Lyle and Shavers beat much better fighters. Shavers got to knock out Ellis, bugner, Norton. These are people we have heard of.
That is my recollection too. Once Williams was down that was it. He got up a few times against Ali. I admire his spirit .
I forgot about his wins over Bugner and Ellis. Thanks for jogging my memory
I'd pick the Williams who lost to Liston to beat Quarry. That version was a baddd man
I agree with the general consensus, Quarry probably wins this fight. While I usually never use the phrase "styles make fights", it seems appropriate here.
The good man choklab, is not entirely correct when he states that Shavers KOd Bugner, the fight was stopped in the 2nd due to a severe cut on Bugners right eye, no one was able to KO the extremely durable Bugner, all his losses were by TKO, just saying........
stay safe guys.
Disagree. Quarry had the power in his left hook to knock out Williams who didn't have an iron chin.
I am. The version who steam rolled Frazier would've certainly done the same against Lyle.
Untrue. Williams defense' in the Liston and Terrell II fight (where he was injured) were vastly vastly better than anything Lyle displayed.
The punishment he absorbed was from a rusty, mentally shattered Foreman who attempted to pace himself, and refused to resort to his natural body mechanics. He certainly never took the punches Ali and Frazier did.
Williams got up a couple times. Also Liston was a much better finisher than Foreman especially THAT version of Foreman who refused to go all out like Pre-Zaire Foreman.
No, no, and no. Liston had an excellent defense, much better than even a prime Foreman, let alone the version of Foreman Lyle faced.
Their's no "may have been". He was noticeably passed it at 35 years old, as seen by his next bout when he was getting beat over the top rope by a journeyman before a very early bell saved him.
False. He fought Holmes before Norton.
Maybe. It's also very possible, Norton's confidence against punchers was never the same after Foreman knocked him out. A view I personally subscribe to.
The only person who cracked Williams chin in his prime was a prime Liston. And Williams didn't exactly fall over the first time he got hit.
Quarry lacked Liston's power, and skills.