Cleveland Big Cat Williams 1960 vs Jerry Quarry 1969, who wins?

Ill say again, when you are listing Billy Daniels, Alex Miteff, and a green unrated Terrell as your boys best wins it is really damning him with faint praise.

 

They weren't anything special in the grand scheme of things but they were objectively better than anything Lyle did. His draw with Machen was much better than anything Lyle could've mustered up in two tries against Young.

 

Aren't you one of the people who thought Williams wasn't green when he faced Satterfield at 20 years old? But a 23 year old Terrell who'd been boxing for five years was green?

Also I don't think Williams resume was a murderer's row but they're better than Lyle's resume imo, as much as people here don't want to admit it.

 

To be fair, Williams had 33 wins under his belt at the time of the Satterfield fight and Satterfield was 177 pounds according to boxrec. On the other hand, I recognize that Williams had little prep for the fight and it was a last minute thing.

 

LOL. Ok, YOU are the one who is right and everyone else is wrong. Got it. Ive never seen anyone try to argue that the likes of Alex Miteff and Billy Daniels were better than Bonavena, Ellis, Bugner, Shavers, Peralta, Middleton, etc. Lyles record shits all over Williams' record and it isnt even close. Nevermind outboxing Ali before getting stopped (some would say early) and dropping Foreman twice in that losing effort.

 

Im not sure why you are comparing Machen and Young. In getting robbed against Ali and Norton and dropping and beating Foreman, in addition to beating Lyle twice Young has bigger scalps than anyone on Machen's record. The best wins on Machens record are between a 19-0 blown up light heavyweight Doug Jones who would fail to win his next three bouts or 17-0-3 Quarry who was coming off a draw had only been 10 rounds 4 times and only won one of those four fights and was only 20 years old. Unless you consider his two wins over a completely shot LHW Joey Maxim impressive. Oh wait, Machen also beat Miteff who you think was something special, so theres that as well.

 

As I've stated, Bonavena was at the end of the road and lost to a washed Patterson years prior.
Ellis was shot, unranked, and been one-shotted by Shavers a couple fights earlier. The fact he went the distance with Lyle is embarrassing.
Bugner's a decent win.
He might've been rated but he was past his bast days and had came out of retirement. He took Lyle to an SD.
Shavers floored Lyle and had him in lala land before he was saved by the bell.
Peralta was a lhw at the end of his career and still took Lyle to a draw in his very last bout.
Middleton, lol

Lyle's resume would be quite different if he had beaten all of these men in their prime which I highly highly doubt he'd be able to do.

I've already gotten into the Foreman fight, but regarding Ali. This "Lyle outboxed Ali" myth is spread by know-nothings such as yourself. Ali wasn't outboxed at all. He was simply in one of his lazy modes, not doing much of anything. Lyle simply won the rounds because he was the only one doing something. Once Ali turned it on, we all know what happened. I see you're one of those who thought Lyle was stopped early lol. He was done. Even Ali became hesitant to hit him.

 

He was not robbed against Ali or Norton. He didn't have the mentality of a champion. Sticking his head outside the ropes when the going got tough, and flurries below the belt ruin his case.

His fight against Norton could've gone either way but it was no robbery.

The best wins on Machen's record is probably the top ten (not sure of his ranking off the top of my head) Valdez who was never stopped before fighting Machen.

Anyways Williams draw with Machen is something Lyle couldn't dream to replicate. He would've been laughably clueless on what to do like he was against the other slickster he fought.

"Oh wait, Machen also beat Miteff who you think was something special, so theres that as well" Not sure if you have memory issues but in the quote you replied to I said "They weren't anything special in the grand scheme of things" Not sure how even you could've missed that.

 

After observing this exchange between you and Klompton, I guess it comes down to how you look at things such as how good Daniels or Miteff were or how you high you think Lyle's wins over guys like Shavers or Bugner rate.

 

The majority of Williams 33 wins were against push overs. Williams didn't have an amateur career at all so he learned the trade by fighting cans. 34 total fights is very very low for a pro boxer, when accounting for their amateur career as well.